Detecting design or intent in nature

[Heywood]

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I think your point, that we aren't really talking about evolution but something else, is worthy of consideration. I just don't think it refutes the argument.

I wasn't so much trying to refute your argument as to pin down what your conclusion was. Given your recent reply, it would seem that you are arguing that the genesis of "the seed" of biological evolution likely involved intellect.

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See what you think of this counter-argument:

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1a. Where the operation of Heywood systems is like the operation of biological evolution, the genesis of biological evolution is probably like the genesis of Heywood systems (the "seed");

1b. Where the operation of Heywood systems is unlike the operation of biological evolution, the genesis of biological evolution is probably unlike the genesis of Heywood systems;

2. The operation of Heywood systems is like that of the operation of biological evolution in that it involves replication, heritability, change, and selection;

3. The operation of Heywood systems is unlike that of the operation of biological evolution in that Heywood systems require intellect, whereas biological evolution does not;

Conclusion 1: The genesis of biological systems probably involved replication, heritability, change, and selection. (By 1a and 2)
Conclusion 2: The genesis of biological systems probably did not involve intellect. (by 1b and 3)

Therefore, abiogenesis probably did not involve a creator. (restatement of C2)

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Let me know what you think.

I think there is a fatal problem with premise 3. The spider sim is an example of a Heywood system that requires intellect for its genesis but does not require intellect for its operation. Set up a computer powered by a radioisotope thermoelectric generator to run the sim and it would continue to run it just fine for quite a long time even if all the intellects were sterilized.

Venter's Mycoplasma Laboratorium is another example of a Heywood system which required intellect for its genesis, but its subsequent evolution does not require intellect. The operation of Heywood systems is sometimes like the operation of biological evolution so premise 3 is false.

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Rasetsu made the same points as others did.

She's an order of magnitude brighter than the rest of you.