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Implications of not having free will
#28
RE: Implications of not having free will
(January 7, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Spacedog Wrote: I realise there's a similar thread to this but I wanted to narrow things down to the implications of not having free will, which I honesty find disconcerting. However, if you feel you can provide evidence against my argument for it not existing do feel free, I think I'd prefer to believe I had it!

To start with I will briefly explain why I do not believe we have free will.

Imagine there's a worm crawling across the floor - you shine a torch at it; it's eyes detect the light stimuli which triggers a chain of electro-chemical reactions in it's neural cells, and it moves away from the torch. This automatic response was the only way the worm could have reacted, the result of the chemical structure of it's brain (or ganglia) and the environmental stimuli it was receiving.
Now take a mouse - while it's brain is immeasurably more complex than the worms, it's actions should work is the same way, but with many more possible outcomes.
Seeing as we are animals too, it is only logical to conclude that human free will is purely an illusion of the seemingly infinite number of possible linear responses we can produce. We do make a choice based on our genetics and past experiences, but the choice we make is the only one we could have made given our brains current chemical structure and the environmental stimuli we received.

Sorry if that's unnecessarily long-winded, I could just say free will is impossible in a deterministic universe.

So the important bit is the implications. If what I've just said is true, then that means the future is predetermined. I had to write this post. If I move my finger left then right, I feel like I chose to do that but actually it was the only thing I could have done. I can't choose to stop smoking or to smoke more because it was all decided 14 billion years ago when a quantum fluctuation caused a bubble of space time to start expanding. We're essentially just along for a ride and powerless to change the route we're taking, and I find that odd to say the least.

Is there any other conclusion that can be drawn given the premise?


I've thought about apparent quantum randomness, but:
1. I don't think quantum events really are random(?), they're a superposition of every possible event until they're observed and they become part of the dimension that you and I called home at least up to the point that I posted this thread;

and 2. Even if they were random, our reality is built on the probabilities arising from the quantum world and is therefore effectively deterministic for humans anyway.

My knowledge of quantum physics is very limited so correct me if I'm wrong here!

The biggest problem is that you have not said what, exactly, you mean by "free will." People often throw that phrase around without bothering to define it, and they assume that everyone knows what is meant. However, there are very different ideas about free will. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

From past experience with other forums, I know many people will not click on anything or read anything of any length, so I will give a very short idea of what I am referring to.

You seem to have the idea that "free will" means that determinism is false. However, in a court of law, there is no metaphysical concern when they ask if someone did something of their own free will. They mean to be asking whether someone did something in accordance with their own wishes, as opposed to being coerced by someone or some thing. There is generally no concern about the issue of how they came to want whatever it is that they want. If I take a drink of water as I type this message, I do so of my own free will, in this sense. Or in other words, I drink because I want to, and I want to because I am thirsty and believe that drinking water will help quench my thirst. The causes, if any, of those states is irrelevant to the fact that I wanted to drink and no one forced me to do so. So, I have free will in that sense, regardless of whether my actions were ultimately caused by (determined by) previous states of affairs.

Whether my desires have antecedent causes or not is irrelevant to me acting in accordance with my desires.

Now, if you want something more complete, you should read the articles at the links above. If you want more detail, you can read these as well:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/freewill/

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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Messages In This Thread
Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 7, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Dystopia - January 7, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Esquilax - January 7, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Dystopia - January 7, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by JuliaL - January 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Angrboda - January 7, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Dystopia - January 7, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by bennyboy - January 8, 2015 at 8:22 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 6:29 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 7, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Anomalocaris - January 9, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by JuliaL - January 9, 2015 at 6:51 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by IATIA - January 7, 2015 at 6:33 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 6:43 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by IATIA - January 7, 2015 at 7:15 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 7, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Mudhammam - January 7, 2015 at 6:59 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 7, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Mudhammam - January 7, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Mudhammam - January 9, 2015 at 5:35 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Spacedog - January 26, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by professor - January 26, 2015 at 7:05 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by IATIA - January 26, 2015 at 7:12 pm
RE: Implications of not having free will - by Pyrrho - February 8, 2015 at 5:48 pm

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