RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 8:06 am
(This post was last modified: February 17, 2015 at 9:17 am by Homeless Nutter.)
(February 16, 2015 at 10:21 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:
(February 16, 2015 at 10:59 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: Hi Homeless Nutter
Your reply comes closest to what I was getting on the other site.
1. first there is a difference between false faith healing that is dangerous and fraudulent, vs. effective spiritual healing that is safe natural and doesn't reject science or medicine but works consistently with both.
To a scientist - there is no difference. Neither has been proven in a rational manner. People believe whatever they want to believe. That's not how science works.
Quote:Dr. Francis MacNutt explains this best in his books on the subject,
and does appeal for help to stop the fraudulent faith healing that is dangerous. by proving how the correct practices work, this will solve that problem at the same time
A charlatan denouncing competition - nothing new.
Quote:2. the placebo effect does not work on cases like drug or sexual addiction, that require deep spiritual healing. the real recovery work is based on forgiveness, and this is a deep and difficult process, and not something that can be faked with a placebo.
None of that is a fact. Sounds like a fancy talk for 12 step program, which is not a scientific method and there's no proof it has any better long-time effects than no treatment at all. Some people beat addiction, some don't.
And placebo effect is not "faked". It's a real thing - people often get better, when they believe they should be getting better, like when someone is taking care of them. Placebo effect is also at work, when real medicine is used. I suggest reading up on that, since you don't seem to understand the basics of medical research.
Quote:I've never seen forced forgiveness that worked to heal anything. And never seen someone magically will away their drug addiction or especially not a sexual addiction as deeply rooted as pedophilia. You cannot just will someone to stop being homosexual or to suddenly become transgender.
These are deep spiritual conditions, and the cases of people who have healed did so through forgiveness and healing therapy. Placebo's can't magically change alcoholics to normal people free from addictions, sorry.
Neither can whatever it is you're talking about, sorry. As I said before - some people beat addiction, some don't. And often others take the credit. Psychotherapy can probably help, but if you mean that, then why not call it "psychotherapy"? And obviously any contact with other humans is helpful to a recovering addict, because the main problem of most addicts is isolation. Nothing magical here.
Everything you are saying sounds like the same old "feel-good", un-provable, metaphysical sentiments, used by - possibly well-meaning - people who'd like to be doctors, but are unable or unwilling to put in the effort and go through med-school. They make up, or adhere to fake, but nice-sounding modalities and feel like they're "helping". The problems start when they influence gullible people's choices of medical treatment, which happens all too often - hence my negative reaction to something that may seem innocuous - if naive - in itself.
If my doctor tells me I need "spiritual healing" I'll... seek a second, perhaps a third opinion. If it checks out, though - I'll be happy to give it a try. Until then - it's officially "woo".
Feel free to argue, but I'm not really going to explain science here. You're making claims - show some proof. Vague "new-age-y" sentiments about "forgiveness" and such do not constitute a rational discourse any more than nursery rhymes do. They sound "nice", they're easy to use, but mean nothing.
Oh and btw - there's no such thing as "sex addiction", as far as medicine can tell. It's something people (some of them likely addicted to alcohol or other substances, or perhaps with certain personality disorders) made up, in order to justify their lack of impulse control.
We're all "sex addicts" - just as we are "food addicts" and "air addicts" - but most of us cope just fine with no "healing" of any kind.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
