(August 21, 2010 at 12:54 am)Godschild Wrote: Why do you presume you can set the rules for God's court. God has already set the rules and guess what you can not get in on your own merit it will not stand up to God's rules.
It's interesting how Christians assert that they believe in an absolute and objective standard of morality and then claim that God (or their god Yahweh) operates by a different set of standards that can't be properly understood by humans. This is how they justify the oddities that human sacrifice somehow makes everything better and how a loving god can torture people in Hell forever.
If you believe in an objective and universal standard of morality, than the same rules should apply to Yahweh as any human ruler of a country. So you can see that I'm not "setting the rules for God's court" but am simply applying the same judgment that I would to any court.
One universal standard of moral justice that I think we can agree on is that moral justice demands that the criminal alone must pay the penalty for a crime. An innocent person can't be punished in place of the criminal, even if the innocent person is willing. We would never accept this from any other country. "Jesus took our place on the cross"? Why is it OK for Yahweh to have this standard of justice?
And what about this ancient idea that blood sacrifice makes everything better? If I told you that I worshiped a volcano god and my people once sacrificed a virgin by throwing her into a volcano and that appeased the wrath of the gods, you'd probably say my belief was both ridiculous and barbaric. Even if I didn't participate in the sacrifice ritual, how could I glorify such an act of cruelty? What if instead I believed that 2000 years ago, we took a pure-hearted virgin, beat the crap out of him and nailed him to a cross to appease my god's wrath?
I'm sure you and I could also agree that a leader of a country who punished people for thought-crimes would be immoral, yes? What about when Yahweh does it? According to you, the most important aspect of our character is what our metaphysical beliefs are, at least in Yahweh's eyes. If I fail to believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins, Yahweh will torture me forever in Hell. This is eternal torture for thought crimes.
And let's talk about the morality of Hell. The purpose of punishment is to correct bad behavior. Moral punishment is both proportional to the crime and seeks to correct the behavior or at least protect future victims. Hell is the most horrific torture imagined by humans, the kind that would be condemned by international law were it ever to be implemented by any leader of any country. Additionally, since there is no possible parole from Hell, it can't rehabilitate. It's sole purpose is for torture.
Any parent who poured gasoline on a child and burned the child alive would be rightly arrested for child abuse, no matter how naughty the child had been. What about when Yahweh does it?
By the standards that we would evaluate the morality and justice of any world leader or parent, can you honestly say that Yahweh is just?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
