Atheist version of Pascal's wager

[Nihilist Virus]

Pascal's wager, for the one or two of you who don't know, says that because there is between a 0% and 100% chance of Christianity being true, and because the consequences of unbelief are infinite, one ought to believe in Christianity.  There are many rebuttals to this, but to me the most obvious one is that one cannot actually force oneself to believe in something that is irrational no matter what the stakes are.  Can you force yourself to believe in unicorns?

But if you already believe in Christianity, then you have to answer to the atheist version of your own wager.  You should sell all that you own and give to the poor, then wander the world doing good works and preaching the gospel.  There is clearly a 100% chance you'll get into heaven if you do this (provided your heart is right and all that jazz), but there is NOT a 100% chance that Jesus will accept you into heaven if you sit on your wealth while children starve to death.  Jesus did say that many will do good works, thinking they're Christian, but yet will still be cast into hell.  So if you live like a king in your Western world, occasionally going to church and giving a manageable tithe, there's no guarantee you will get into heaven.

You are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead... so there is no guarantee that you are doing enough unless you do all that you can.

[Huggy Bear]

Pascal's wager, for the one or two of you who don't know, says that because there is between a 0% and 100% chance of Christianity being true, and because the consequences of unbelief are infinite, one ought to believe in Christianity.  There are many rebuttals to this, but to me the most obvious one is that one cannot actually force oneself to believe in something that is irrational no matter what the stakes are.  Can you force yourself to believe in unicorns?

But if you already believe in Christianity, then you have to answer to the atheist version of your own wager.  You should sell all that you own and give to the poor, then wander the world doing good works and preaching the gospel.  There is clearly a 100% chance you'll get into heaven if you do this (provided your heart is right and all that jazz), but there is NOT a 100% chance that Jesus will accept you into heaven if you sit on your wealth while children starve to death.  Jesus did say that many will do good works, thinking they're Christian, but yet will still be cast into hell.  So if you live like a king in your Western world, occasionally going to church and giving a manageable tithe, there's no guarantee you will get into heaven.

You are saved by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead... so there is no guarantee that you are doing enough unless you do all that you can.

"Faith without works is dead"....

This is true, but the "works" that you gave an example of is not what that scripture is talking about.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus walked on water, through faith Peter also walked on water.

James 5:15
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

That being said, there is nothing you can do to earn your way in to heaven, you can only get there by the grace (unmerited favor) of God.

It's a free gift.

[Cyberman]

This is part of an article which appears to have evaporated, but I took the precaution of saving it to my "I'm sure I'll find a use for this one day" file:

The flaws

The most obvious problems with Pascal’s Wager are:

• How do you know which god to believe in?  There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?).  This is known as the ‘Avoiding the wrong Hell problem.’  If a dozen people of different religions came to you with Pascal’s Wager, how could you possibly choose between them?  After all, many religions are quite specific that they are the One True Religion, and not any others.  Jesus Christ is supposed to have said, “I am the way, the truth and the light.  None shall come to the Father except through me.”  [emphasis added] and no doubt most other religions make similar claims.  If a Christian considers the Wager as strong support for his faith, surely he must accept that it is equally valid for all other religions when presented to himself?

• God is surely not stupid.  Won’t it know that you’re just trying to get a free ride into Heaven?  How can you sincerely believe in a god simply out of convenience?

• If there is no God, you have still lost something.  You have wasted a good portion of your life performing the various devotional rituals, attending Churches, praying, reading scripture and discussing your deity with His other followers.  Not to mention giving your hard-earned money to the church, wasting your intelligence on theological endeavours and boring the hell out of people who really don’t want to hear your Good News.

• Can you get away with just sort of generally believing in a Supreme Being, without specifically believing in one particular Deity?  Probably not - God will still know what you’re up to.  Also, many gods are quite particular about how they should be worshipped.  Many born-again Christians will tell you that the only way to Heaven is through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal saviour - nothing more and nothing less.  General-Deity-Belief and being nice simply won’t do.  Many people believe that all the different religions are merely alternative routes to the same destination.  Nice and tolerant (if a little warm ‘n’ fuzzy) though this may be, there is no valid reason to accept this stance over the fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist position: if the fundies are right, then the un-Saved liberal theists are in just as much trouble as the nonbelievers.

• Few, if any, atheists disbelieve in deities out of choice.  It’s not as if we know the god is really there, but somehow refuse to believe in it (for example, see if you can choose to truly believe that Australia does not exist).  Most atheists disbelieve simply because they know of no compelling evidence to suggest that any sort of god exists.  If you want an atheist to believe, show her some good evidence, don’t just say it’s in her best interests to believe even if there is no god.  A person cannot choose to sincerely believe in something, just because it is pragmatic to do so.  Sure, you could say all the right prayers and attend church regularly, but that is not the same thing as actually believing, and any god worth its salt would obviously see straight through that.

• It is quite insulting.  It amounts to a thinly veiled threat, little better than saying “Believe in my God or He’ll send you to Hell” (in fact, this is often the form in which it is presented).  Also, the theist making this threat assumes that the atheist believes there is a Hell or a god to send him there in the first place.  If you don’t believe in Hell anyway, it’s not a scary thing to be threatened with - a bit like saying “If you don’t start believing in unicorns, one will trample you to death while you’re sleeping.”  Who would be worried by that?

• It is often self-refuting, depending on the person’s description of God.  If you believe that God will forgive anyone for anything, or judge people purely on how they lived their life and not what they believed, or that everyone gets to Heaven regardless (unless maybe they were genocidal cannibal serial killers), then the Wager is meaningless.  You might as well say “Believe in God, or you’ll... erm... go to Heaven anyway.”  In such a case, it doesn’t make a scrap of difference whether the person believes or not.

Pascal’s Wager is hopelessly flawed.  It sounds good at first, but poke it with the spike of reason and it quickly deflates, letting out all the hot air.

An alternative - The Atheist’s Wager

This seems to be much more reasonable, both for atheists and for theists:

“It is better to live your life as if there are no gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it.  If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind.  If there is a benevolent god, it will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in it.”

(And if the god is not benevolent, it’s gonna git ya whatever you do!)

[brewer]

Wish I could give more than one kudos.

Really like the "what if the fundies are right". Kinda brings up the "OK, tell us where the bar is set".

[AFTT47]

(And if the god is not benevolent, it’s gonna git ya whatever you do!)

That's the one that's so obvious to me. The God of the Bible kills babies, orders his followers to kill babies and even wipes out the entire human race save for Noah and his family. And Christians think they can trust him?

[Heat]

The amount of words needed to explain your point speaks for how illogical the point is.

You don't need a long answer to a short question to convince someone that you're right, if you are in fact correct.

[robvalue]

Awesome stuff.

Man, that is a comprehensive takedown Stimbo! I've been meaning to do a video about this but now there's no need.

[Silver]

Money and power corrupted Christians.

[zebo-the-fat]

I don't see how anyone can just decide to believe, you either do or you don't. Given enough evidence I may start to believe but I can't just say I will believe from next Monday!

[Lek]

Pascal's wager is irrelevant.  It's true that you can't make yourself believe in Christ.  That belief comes from God to a person who is open to it.  Also, we don't follow Christ simply because we want to go to heaven, but because we believe he is the son of God, and as such we belong to him.  Even if there was no heaven we would still be bound to follow him.  Jesus spoke sparingly of hell and the writers of the new testament never preached "fire and brimstone".  If a person professes christianity simply to avoid hell, I would seriously doubt that he is a true believer.