(August 23, 2010 at 8:44 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why would you consider that humans could ever understand an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God, that is not logical.
At this point I need to ask you, because I shouldn't assume you think as other Christians do, whether or not you believe in an "objective standard of morality". Christians often like to rail against moral relativism and claim that absolute standards are proof that their god must exist. So do you believe in an absolute standard of morality or not?
If you do, than why not apply the same standards to Yahweh's court that we apply to the court of any world leader? Or any other god? To claim a different standard of judgment simply because we replace the words "Allah" or "Zeus" with "Jesus" is special pleading and undermines any claim you might have for an absolute standard of morals.
Quote:Your definition of sacrifice and Christ's definition of sacrifce are very different. What you've written in your first paragraph is man killing another man to appease God. Christ plainly told the Roman soldiers that He willingly was allowing these events to take place.
Oh, did I forget to mention that the virgin we sacrificed in the volcano was willing? Yeah, she was. Not coerced either. The tribe asked for a volunteer and she stepped forward. Does that really make any difference to you? Even if Christ was willing, the sadistic display in Mel Gibson's snuff flick depicted a senseless act of torture and murder/suicide, glorified as appeasing the wrath of your god.
Quote:Yes to save people from an everlasting punishment.
Saving the people from himself and his wrath.
Quote:God set these standards for man to help him live a moral and better life and when one is broken there are consequences, just as when a person breaks mans law that person has to pay a penilty.
No one disputes whether or not there should be punishments for genuine crime (for real crimes where there is a victim, not victimless crimes like blasphemy, idolatry and homosexuality). The question is whether the punishments are proportional and instructive. The kind of punishments described in Hell are beyond what I would wish on anyone and they serve no instructive purpose.
Quote:This is the only way it could be,Why?
Does Yahweh make the rules or not? I thought he's supposed to be God. What power compels God in such a manner?
Quote:Christ said I am the way and the life without me no one can come to the Father.And since Jesus and Yahweh are part of the same substance, he's saying "no man commeth unto me except by me".
Quote:Christ's death is a gift to mankind, it's His way of showing us how much love He has for us.A better display of love would be to command the abolition of slavery, admonish the equality of women, provide instructions on proper hygiene and medicine, or any number of other productive things that God-incarnate could have accomplished aside from having people whip him and nail him to a cross.
Quote:Yahwah desires that all would have eternal life and not suffer the eternal punishment.What's holding him back?
Why not just forgive us instead of sacrificing himself to himself and then demanding with no evidence that everyone believe that somehow this act made everything better.
Quote:To answer your 5th paragraph, to not believe Christ is our savior is not a thought process it is an action that is lived out physically. If someone says I believe that Christ died for my sins and continued their immoral life then thats just talk, there is no true heart change and the heart change is what happens to true believers. The actions are not our salvation they are the proof of our acceptance of Christ as our savior.
But morality is, at most, unrelated to piety. Personally, my observation, backed up by sociology studies, is that the relationship is closer to inverse. However, let that go. Let me just give you two examples: Torquemada and Gandhi. The first was a Christian who tortured in the name of Jesus. The second was a Hindu who brought positive change through peaceful protest. The first had faith but bad works. The second had the wrong faith but good works. Who's in Heaven and who's in Hell?
Quote:Yes let's talk about the morality of hell... (flimsy rationalizations and nonsense ensue)
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
