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Pascal's Wager Revisited
#84
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited
(April 9, 2015 at 11:43 pm)datc Wrote:
(April 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote: And in what way do you think that admitting other animals even approach your own level of intellect and empathy cause a life to be subpar?  The need to downgrade others in order to feel better about oneself is the hallmark of a subpar life.

I'm not downgrading animals; I am upgrading humans to where they already are.

To elevate oneself over others; to lower others beneath oneself---it's all a bit of a muchness.

But, make no mistake, we're pretty special. Special enough to be talking about ourselves in a more or less introspective way. Special enough to be aware of death. Special enough to create the scientific method. But, you appear unable to recognize that our intelligence and ability to behave morally are part of a continuum and not traits specially set aside for us. In so doing, you refuse to look at your own origins squarely in the face. You are the result of evolution. Not the result of god's plan or even evolution's plan (evolution does not make plans). Know thyself.

(April 9, 2015 at 11:43 pm)datc Wrote:
(April 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm)Jenny A Wrote: And why would any effort to make this world or oneself better be negated by an understanding that this world is transient?  It is those who neglect this world in favor of a possible afterlife that are dangerously deluded.

Because making yourself or another happy for eternity feels more valuable that for a finite number of years.

Don't degrade the finite. Rare things are precious because of their rarity. In the desert water is valuable. In the ocean, less so. Life is precious because it is fleeting. Begin to think it goes on forever and you make poor decisions about human life. Thinking you will live forever, makes one profligate with one's own life and more importantly, that of others.

Jesus preached giving away one's worldly possessions, forsaking one's family and otherwise living as if the end of the world was nigh. If the world really were ending tomorrow, or if you could really expect to be rewarded for such behavior eternally, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad way to live. But as we have no reason (other than wishful thinking) to believe we, or anyone else will live forever, it is not a good way to live. And Christians, fortunately for them, mostly don't live that way. Suicide boomers do. So did various Christian martyrs. That way leads a premature and ugly death with little or no advancement of knowledge and small care for others. It also justifies programs like The Inquisition, or the burning of heretics.

I strongly suggest you read some Stoics and some Epicureans. Both schools advocated living well in the here and now by behaving morally, seeking knowledge, and learning to be happy with what we have.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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Messages In This Thread
Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 7, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by FatAndFaithless - April 7, 2015 at 2:38 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Surgenator - April 7, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Confused Ape - April 7, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Brian37 - April 7, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by FreeTony - April 7, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by TheRealJoeFish - April 7, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mudhammam - April 7, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 7, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Norman Humann - April 7, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Exian - April 7, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Pizza - April 7, 2015 at 3:06 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Brian37 - April 7, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 7, 2015 at 3:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Brian37 - April 7, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 7, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 7, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 7, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Brian37 - April 7, 2015 at 4:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 7, 2015 at 4:15 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Pyrrho - April 7, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 7, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by TheRealJoeFish - April 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by abaris - April 7, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 9, 2015 at 9:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 9, 2015 at 9:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 9, 2015 at 9:44 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 9:53 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 9, 2015 at 3:16 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 8:54 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 9, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 9, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 9:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 9, 2015 at 9:22 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by The Valkyrie - April 9, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Chas - April 9, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 9, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 9, 2015 at 6:32 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Exian - April 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 7, 2015 at 4:32 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Faith No More - April 7, 2015 at 4:40 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 7, 2015 at 4:51 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 7, 2015 at 4:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 7, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 9, 2015 at 3:36 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 9, 2015 at 6:50 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 9, 2015 at 9:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 9:34 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 9, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 10:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Chas - April 9, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 10:18 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 9, 2015 at 10:22 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Surgenator - April 9, 2015 at 10:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 10:42 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 11:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 11:14 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 9, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cato - April 10, 2015 at 5:47 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Faith No More - April 10, 2015 at 12:56 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 10, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Faith No More - April 10, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 3:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Thumpalumpacus - April 10, 2015 at 2:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 9, 2015 at 11:13 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 10:25 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 10, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 9, 2015 at 9:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Chas - April 9, 2015 at 10:27 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 9, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 9, 2015 at 10:29 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 9, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 9, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 10, 2015 at 9:52 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 10, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 10, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mr.wizard - April 10, 2015 at 3:36 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 10, 2015 at 10:22 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by pocaracas - April 10, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2015 at 12:32 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Faith No More - April 10, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 10, 2015 at 1:04 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 10, 2015 at 1:54 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 10, 2015 at 2:07 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 2:24 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 10, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 12:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 10, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 1:56 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 3:09 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 3:58 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mr.wizard - April 10, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Jenny A - April 10, 2015 at 3:09 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 3:11 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 3:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 3:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 3:58 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 10, 2015 at 4:04 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by dyresand - April 10, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by dyresand - April 10, 2015 at 4:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 10, 2015 at 5:13 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 10, 2015 at 6:50 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 10, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by abaris - April 10, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:40 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by abaris - April 10, 2015 at 5:42 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 6:51 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by abaris - April 10, 2015 at 6:57 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 7:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by abaris - April 10, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 8:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 10, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Chas - April 10, 2015 at 6:06 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by dyresand - April 10, 2015 at 4:19 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by dyresand - April 10, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 10, 2015 at 4:56 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 10, 2015 at 8:40 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Simon Moon - April 10, 2015 at 8:54 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 9:28 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 10, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mudhammam - April 10, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 9:55 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Bad Wolf - April 10, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Silver - April 10, 2015 at 10:23 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 10, 2015 at 11:07 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 11, 2015 at 5:31 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mudhammam - April 11, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 11, 2015 at 2:37 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Thumpalumpacus - April 11, 2015 at 3:39 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 11, 2015 at 5:41 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Pyrrho - April 11, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 11, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 11, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 11, 2015 at 3:36 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 11, 2015 at 3:47 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 11, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Brakeman - April 11, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 11, 2015 at 8:26 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 11, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 11, 2015 at 11:09 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 12, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 12, 2015 at 4:00 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Thumpalumpacus - April 12, 2015 at 5:38 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by IATIA - April 11, 2015 at 10:46 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Pizza - April 12, 2015 at 4:51 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Thumpalumpacus - April 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 12, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Minimalist - April 12, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 12, 2015 at 5:17 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Angrboda - April 12, 2015 at 5:49 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by datc - April 12, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Esquilax - April 12, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Thumpalumpacus - April 12, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Ravenshire - April 13, 2015 at 12:32 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Mudhammam - April 12, 2015 at 8:01 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 12, 2015 at 8:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 13, 2015 at 12:28 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Pizza - April 13, 2015 at 11:12 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Iroscato - April 13, 2015 at 12:32 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by dyresand - April 13, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by Cyberman - April 13, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by robvalue - April 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Pascal's Wager Revisited - by downbeatplumb - April 13, 2015 at 1:51 pm

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