RE: Eternal the originator of time - proof.
April 12, 2015 at 8:43 am
(This post was last modified: April 12, 2015 at 8:46 am by Whateverist.)
(April 11, 2015 at 7:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: A lot of people say, how do we know that infinite regress is not possible, and that there isn't an infinite chain of cause and effects.
A chain of effects is an effect.
An effect requires a cause.
A chain of effects thus requires a cause.
Now, a chain of infinite effects would be without cause right? But we know a chain of infinite effects is still a chain of effects and each of the effects requires a cause, the whole chains of effects all require a cause. Therefore it's by definition without a cause and with a cause, a contradiction, an impossibility.
Another thing is that it's as if every chain is a person in army that won't shoot unless the person next to him shoots. There being infinite people, all saying, they won't shoot unless the person next to him shoots. But there not being an actual one person who shoots without a person telling him, it would never actualize.
Another argument is that all of time cannot be said to be eternal. That is the present of time, a lot of the time in the past, for sure is not eternal. It can also be said that no point in time is eternal. If no point in time is eternal, that it doesn't have an eternal existence. To say, "but a point of time always existed" is circular and is obviously wrong as no point of time is eternal and was the point of eternal beginning.
Now with a beginning, there is beginning. Stating there is real no "before" the beginning, doesn't show that beginning is eternal and thus without cause. Therefore something that is eternal needs to cause the beginning. To say "what is more north then north pole" doesn't make sense, because eternalness is the utmost beginning of beginning, while a point of time, even the first, would need to come into being, and cannot cause itself.
This shows there is an eternal cause who originated time. But it's obvious a physical thing cannot simply create time and make the whole universe subservient to time, as it would need time to do that.
It existing before things subject to time, is none physical being.
Now this doesn't prove God, but this proves a Creator. And if you guys can accept a Creator to start with, perhaps, you will accept the knowledge of God and his Oneness as well.
Wait, tell me again what it is that brought about an eternal being. If you have no problem imagining an eternal agent why can't you imagine an eternal state of affairs which is beyond our poor powers to understand? Just because our powers of reason -which were no doubt selected for by their power to put dinner on the table and keep the enemy at bay- lead us to understand things this way doesn't mean reality has to conform to our categories of understanding.
It is well and good to describe everything that happens as effect but that is a description. If I was as impressed with the necessity of cause and effect as you seem to be, I'd be much more concerned with what brought about an eternal causer. If at any point you are prepared to throw up your hands and say "well that just came from an eternal being", then you might just as well say it is beyond our reach to know what to think about all this. I have more confidence in the world's existence as we find it than I do the necessity of the world conforming to the categories of our though processes.