RE: Realm here
September 8, 2010 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: September 8, 2010 at 4:28 pm by Realmleader.)
(September 8, 2010 at 6:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Let's see what you have so far...
[a]Your personal experiences (aka conformation bias)
[b]Your family agree with you
[c]You believe in the bible because the bible says it's true
[d]You think you have a relationship with a wizard.
[e]You think the wizard's son has taught you things.
Anything i missed?
[a]IS it bias? Yes, personal Bias, but every decision we make has some degree of personal bias.
[b]My family? Feh. Don't make me laugh, I told you my mother told me stories, you do not know the nature of my *family* Do the people I count as significant agree with me? No, not all of them, but at least 40%, the others are Atheist, or luke warm agnostics.
[c]Yes, the bible is reliable in my eyes, in my belief, that is why it's called Faith.
[d]A wizard? Maybe if he talked to me right.....no not really. I believe I have a relationship (and I appreciate your careful note in using the word "relationship") with the Creator, and yes, I am very familiar with the no true scotsman deal, so if your warming up for that lets get it it.
[e]Through Experience, yes.
So what conclusions do you draw from this Void?
Much of the same I hope.
Realm
(September 8, 2010 at 8:31 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Realm,
Now, I'm not going to ask how your personal experiences are evidence of God. I'm going to ask how you think any personal experience can possibly be evidence for God. How is not any alternative more probable?
You asked this question well, your no doubt the smart one. Think back to Paul though... I thought he had it all figured out until he was struck down on Damascus, (that is really stretching it for my version of 'experience' but that point remains) He learned from this exp. changed his outlook drastically, and began living a Christ centered life. As i stated before, this was just the seed that took root for me, I've strengthened my faith since. But personal experience has compounded every chapter in my life.
(September 7, 2010 at 11:35 pm)Realmleader Wrote: A quick question, how exactly does Agnostic Christian work?[referring to Watson] I am in my dorm right now, munching on McD's from last night, I laughed (mouth full, so it didn't end well ) and shook my head at the sight. I mean no offense, but it is air to admit I am skeptical. Just a quick elaboration (look at me using big words xD) on what your definition of Christian and Agnostic should clean it up.
Quote:Considering the fact you believe your own personal experience is why you believe in God, that cannot possibly be absolute proof because it's inductive at best. And because of the problem of induction, no amount of experience can prove something to be real. So from your position, it is only intellectually honest if you are agnostic on the matter of your belief. Claiming absolute knowledge when you believe via personal experience is irrational. It is only if you have analytic, deductive, proof that it could be possible to rationally be gnostic instead of agnostic. And, if you have analytic, deductive support for your belief as opposed to just personal experience, then the personal experience isn't needed at all because you have proof elsewhere (and as I said, personal experience can't be proof).
No, personal Experience cannot be the proof you give to others, but it can be plenty proof for one self.
If I said to you that peanut butter and honey made a great sandwich and you asked me how I knew, I wuld say to, "I tried it! It was awesome!" (granted any number of atheist will wish to step in and say they've tried God and are X-christians) But will my testimony be good enough for skeptical old you? No, I think you would have to see for yourself. But my own experimentation with Peanut Butter and honey is more than enough to tell me it is good. To understand how something works people experience it, then run the tests to figure it out. I couldn't begin to tell you how a television works, but from personal experience I can tell you that it is entertaining.
Your questions are rock solid good, and I hope my answers do them justice,
Realm