(May 1, 2015 at 8:52 am)Nope Wrote: I am not calling out AlphaMale. He asked me to provide some bible verses that prove something that I alluded to on another thread but doing so would have derailed that thread.
Many Christians when asked why there is evil in the world, respond that god allowed us free will in order for us to freely decide to love him. Because humans have free will, evil things happen in the world as a result of human actions. God is not, according to them, responsible for human actions. This means that babies are raped because god wants love.
If someone does not accept Jesus, they go to hell according to some Christians.
Alpha male has asked me to prove in the bible what may Christians have been saying so that is the reason for this thread. It would derail the thread if I responded with so many bible verses on it. Basically I am trying to use the bible to prove it says what most Christians claim it does.
In the other thread, I had suggested that someone read the Bible. You said that you had read it, and proposed your interpretation of its message. What's with all the talk of other Christians?
Also, with this opening, and the title of the thread, you seem to be trying to shift the discussion from your first claim to a general discussion of the problem of evil. We can do that in another thread if you like.
It seems you've got a bit of a bait and switch going.
Quote:First, hell and the fact that god sends people to hell. This is the NIV version of the bible
Yes, I agree that hell exists and god sends people there. However, note the basis of their condemnation:
Rev 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Your own passage says that people are judged according to what they have done, not according to whether they loved god or not.
Note further that there is a set of books recording what people have done; and another book, which is the book of life. The first books represent justice and judgment. The second book represents grace and mercy.
Quote:The next verses are about god wanting love.
I agree that God wants love.
Quote:Even in the Old Testament, god wanted love and obedience in exchange for blessings.
As I noted previously, the promises regarding the law, both rewards and punishment, were all earthly in nature.
Quote:If you are a theist reading these verses do you believe in a fallen world? Why do you believe there is evil in the world? If you believe that human free will is the cause of evil, then why are humans given free will? If we are given free will in order to chose to love god, how does that not translate into babies being raped so god can be loved? If you don't believe that evil is caused by your god wanting to be loved then please explain your alternate view.
Again, feel free to start a POE/POS thread after this one is done.
Quote:It seems to me that Christians want both a god that is all powerful but who also isn't responsible for the cruelty that happens in humans' lives. In order to lessen their deity's responsibility for evil, they turn him into the character Jigsaw from Saw who claimed that he didn't kill anyone, he just created horrible tests for them to pass.
And another shift from your interpretation of the Bible to other Christians.
Quote:I also wanted to add, that I have to run and do something but I will check back later in the day. Honestly, I am not ignoring any answers.
No rush. The debate has been going on for two thousand years. A few more hours or days won't hurt!
In summary:
- you presented a passage which plainly says that people are judged for what they've done
- you tried to shift from the Bible to the beliefs of other Christians. This was only partial, as you did include Bible passages.
- you tried to shift from the original topic, i.e. the basis of god's judgment, to yet another POE thread
