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Proof of God
RE: Proof of God
(May 8, 2015 at 10:26 pm)Hatshepsut Wrote: I'm pretty hip to God, but arguments along various lines-cosmological, ontological, first cause, and so on-have been running for centuries with no positive results.

Maybe that’s because rust never sleeps. The same objections keep reoccurring because the people of today only see the ontological arguments from within the framework of modern analytic philosophy. For example, Anslem’s proof makes no sense on its own. It only becomes compelling within the Scholastic tradition. Scholasticism distinguishes between the mental conception of a thing and imagination of the same. Likewise for Aquinas’s 5 ways. Their effectiveness rests on a nuanced view of causation that has been lost since the time of Descartes

(May 8, 2015 at 10:26 pm)Hatshepsut Wrote: I propose that we accept God without proof. Perhaps based on the age-old prevalence of religious beliefs… I accept that religious belief is a response to something real. However, I'm not foolish enough to think this constitutes an existence proof.

I understand your position and respectfully disagree. Belief in God cannot be separated from beliefs about God’s nature. The ‘age-old prevalence of religious belief’ does not represent a monolithic understanding of what constitutes the Divine. Different cultures could be responding to various unrelated things. In particular, Christianity cannot be separated from its historicity. To paraphrase St. Paul, either Jesus rose from the dead or He didn’t. The identity and nature of Deity is highly specific in Christianity and that distinguishes it from the other religions.

(May 13, 2015 at 3:03 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Show me one thing that supports the notion of a god, that cannot be explained by more mundane things which might themselves need explanation, that doesn't have its basis in crusty mythology. That's all I ask. The stone in my shoe is capable of proving its existence. Why can't a god?

Have you ever considered that the stone in your shoe is proof of God? Seriously. The bare fact that sensible bodies persist in their being while also being subject to change, the intelligibility of reality, and the human capacity to reason allows us to identify necessary truths. 
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Proof of God - by Harris - February 27, 2015 at 1:57 am
RE: Proof of God - by Exian - February 27, 2015 at 2:00 am
RE: Proof of God - by Jacob(smooth) - February 27, 2015 at 2:20 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ravenshire - March 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - March 18, 2015 at 11:09 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 18, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Mister Agenda - March 18, 2015 at 1:27 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Ravenshire - March 20, 2015 at 6:42 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - February 27, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - April 21, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Surgenator - April 21, 2015 at 1:07 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 22, 2015 at 1:44 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Surgenator - April 22, 2015 at 3:41 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 22, 2015 at 4:45 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 25, 2015 at 2:38 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 25, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by Mudhammam - April 25, 2015 at 4:15 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - April 25, 2015 at 10:06 am
RE: Proof of God - by Mudhammam - April 25, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 27, 2015 at 6:57 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 27, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 2, 2015 at 8:56 am
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - May 2, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 3, 2015 at 1:40 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - May 2, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - May 3, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 25, 2015 at 4:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - April 22, 2015 at 5:16 pm
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - April 24, 2015 at 1:48 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2015 at 8:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - April 24, 2015 at 8:46 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2015 at 9:14 am
RE: Proof of God - by Chas - April 24, 2015 at 8:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by Surgenator - April 24, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - February 27, 2015 at 2:38 am
RE: Proof of God - by Exian - February 27, 2015 at 2:46 am
RE: Proof of God - by JesusHChrist - February 27, 2015 at 2:44 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - February 27, 2015 at 2:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by Aoi Magi - February 27, 2015 at 2:55 am
RE: Proof of God - by Exian - February 27, 2015 at 3:07 am
RE: Proof of God - by Thumpalumpacus - February 27, 2015 at 3:13 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - February 27, 2015 at 3:56 am
RE: Proof of God - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 27, 2015 at 4:14 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - February 27, 2015 at 4:23 am
RE: Proof of God - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 27, 2015 at 6:26 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - February 27, 2015 at 6:39 am
RE: Proof of God - by Homeless Nutter - February 27, 2015 at 6:53 am
RE: Proof of God - by Dystopia - February 27, 2015 at 7:20 am
RE: Proof of God - by paulpablo - February 27, 2015 at 7:45 am
RE: Proof of God - by Jacob(smooth) - February 27, 2015 at 8:14 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ben Davis - February 27, 2015 at 8:57 am
RE: Proof of God - by Brian37 - February 27, 2015 at 9:09 am
RE: Proof of God - by Norman Humann - February 27, 2015 at 10:49 am
RE: Proof of God - by Esquilax - February 27, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - February 27, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - February 27, 2015 at 9:55 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Esquilax - February 27, 2015 at 10:20 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - March 3, 2015 at 9:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - March 3, 2015 at 10:00 am
RE: Proof of God - by Fidel_Castronaut - March 3, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Proof of God - by TheRealJoeFish - March 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ben Davis - March 3, 2015 at 11:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by Thumpalumpacus - March 3, 2015 at 12:19 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Esquilax - March 3, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - March 10, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 10, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - March 14, 2015 at 2:36 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 14, 2015 at 5:38 am
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - March 3, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Fidel_Castronaut - March 4, 2015 at 6:19 am
RE: Proof of God - by paulpablo - March 14, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - March 14, 2015 at 8:45 am
RE: Proof of God - by abaris - March 14, 2015 at 9:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - February 27, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Minimalist - February 27, 2015 at 9:58 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Homeless Nutter - February 28, 2015 at 7:17 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - February 28, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 9:59 am
RE: Proof of God - by FatAndFaithless - March 3, 2015 at 10:21 am
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - March 3, 2015 at 11:53 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - March 3, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Valkyrie - March 3, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Exian - March 3, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Proof of God - by ManMachine - March 3, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 3, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: Proof of God - by ManMachine - March 4, 2015 at 7:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ravenshire - March 4, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 4, 2015 at 3:46 am
RE: Proof of God - by Norman Humann - March 4, 2015 at 3:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 4, 2015 at 4:11 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 4, 2015 at 6:47 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 4, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Ben Davis - March 5, 2015 at 7:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 5, 2015 at 7:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 10, 2015 at 7:45 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 14, 2015 at 2:39 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 14, 2015 at 2:56 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 14, 2015 at 2:58 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 14, 2015 at 5:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by Sarcasm - March 16, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 18, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: Proof of God - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2015 at 11:22 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 18, 2015 at 11:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ben Davis - March 18, 2015 at 11:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by Faith No More - March 18, 2015 at 11:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 18, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Proof of God - by Ben Davis - March 18, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 18, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - March 18, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Thumpalumpacus - March 18, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 18, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Proof of God - by Thumpalumpacus - March 18, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - March 18, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Faith No More - March 18, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - March 18, 2015 at 2:06 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Brian37 - March 18, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - March 18, 2015 at 8:14 pm
RE: Proof of God - by LastPoet - March 18, 2015 at 2:10 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - March 18, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 20, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - March 20, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 20, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - March 22, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - March 24, 2015 at 1:25 pm
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - March 24, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - March 24, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - March 24, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 1, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 1, 2015 at 4:47 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 5, 2015 at 2:32 am
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - April 5, 2015 at 9:01 am
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - March 20, 2015 at 7:00 pm
Proof of God - by TubbyTubby - March 20, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Homeless Nutter - March 22, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Norman Humann - March 24, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - March 24, 2015 at 2:55 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - March 24, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - March 24, 2015 at 7:09 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Brakeman - March 24, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Funcaldunkal - March 28, 2015 at 6:02 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 1, 2015 at 12:12 pm
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - April 4, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: Proof of God - by IATIA - April 4, 2015 at 10:06 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Silver - April 5, 2015 at 2:44 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 5, 2015 at 3:05 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 5, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 5, 2015 at 8:21 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 5, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 5, 2015 at 7:21 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 6, 2015 at 5:50 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 6, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 4:37 am
RE: Proof of God - by Silver - April 5, 2015 at 4:42 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 4:44 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 5, 2015 at 11:58 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 5:56 am
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - April 6, 2015 at 12:02 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 6:02 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - April 6, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - April 7, 2015 at 4:02 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 9, 2015 at 11:42 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 11, 2015 at 7:21 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 14, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: Proof of God - by I_am_not_mafia - April 7, 2015 at 3:41 am
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - April 7, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 7, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - April 10, 2015 at 12:40 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 10, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 10, 2015 at 4:49 am
RE: Proof of God - by Zen Badger - April 10, 2015 at 10:47 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 11, 2015 at 2:41 am
RE: Proof of God - by henryp - April 14, 2015 at 5:50 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 14, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - April 14, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - April 20, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - April 20, 2015 at 11:48 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - April 20, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - April 20, 2015 at 11:54 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Brian37 - April 22, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: Proof of God - by IATIA - April 23, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 23, 2015 at 9:08 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 24, 2015 at 6:57 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 24, 2015 at 7:44 am
RE: Proof of God - by Pizza - April 24, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 24, 2015 at 8:38 am
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - April 24, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2015 at 11:46 am
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - April 24, 2015 at 12:07 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Silver - April 25, 2015 at 2:42 am
RE: Proof of God - by downbeatplumb - April 25, 2015 at 3:02 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - April 25, 2015 at 6:18 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - April 25, 2015 at 7:45 am
RE: Proof of God - by Twisted - May 3, 2015 at 2:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 3, 2015 at 4:38 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 3, 2015 at 5:52 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 3, 2015 at 6:07 am
RE: Proof of God - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2015 at 6:23 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 3, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - May 4, 2015 at 7:49 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 6, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Proof of God - by IATIA - May 6, 2015 at 11:54 pm
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - May 8, 2015 at 2:21 pm
RE: Proof of God - by TheRealJoeFish - May 8, 2015 at 2:30 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 8, 2015 at 6:46 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 14, 2015 at 5:58 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - May 14, 2015 at 6:32 am
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 17, 2015 at 5:34 am
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - May 17, 2015 at 10:51 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 14, 2015 at 7:42 am
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - May 14, 2015 at 7:55 am
RE: Proof of God - by Hatshepsut - May 8, 2015 at 10:26 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 9, 2015 at 5:47 am
RE: Proof of God - by Mr.wizard - May 9, 2015 at 8:16 am
RE: Proof of God - by Hatshepsut - May 9, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - May 13, 2015 at 2:19 pm
RE: Proof of God - by TheRealJoeFish - May 13, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 13, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - May 13, 2015 at 3:37 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Esquilax - May 13, 2015 at 7:52 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 13, 2015 at 4:14 pm
RE: Proof of God - by TheRealJoeFish - May 13, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 13, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Neo-Scholastic - May 14, 2015 at 9:42 am
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - May 13, 2015 at 5:38 pm
RE: Proof of God - by ignoramus - May 13, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Whateverist - May 14, 2015 at 7:18 am
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 14, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Hatshepsut - May 15, 2015 at 10:26 am
RE: Proof of God - by LostLocke - May 15, 2015 at 11:09 am
RE: Proof of God - by Nope - May 16, 2015 at 3:48 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 15, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: Proof of God - by Hatshepsut - May 15, 2015 at 1:56 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 15, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Proof of God - by FatAndFaithless - May 15, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Hatshepsut - May 16, 2015 at 9:03 am
RE: Proof of God - by dyresand - May 15, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm
RE: Proof of God - by TheRealJoeFish - May 16, 2015 at 4:04 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 16, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - May 16, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - May 17, 2015 at 7:31 am
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 17, 2015 at 7:34 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Harris - May 21, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Proof of God - by pocaracas - May 21, 2015 at 3:23 pm
RE: Proof of God - by Cyberman - May 21, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Proof of God - by bennyboy - May 21, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 17, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: Proof of God - by robvalue - May 18, 2015 at 1:02 am
RE: Proof of God - by Minimalist - May 21, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Proof of God - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Proof of God - by IATIA - May 21, 2015 at 8:24 pm

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