Why be good?

[Randy Carson]

The nature of the claims IS significant.

If you claim to have had lunch with your wife, and I know you are married, no biggie.
If you claim to have had lunch with Tom Hanks (or President Obama depending upon the version), I might believe you if I also know you work in the film industry.
If you claim to have had lunch with the Avengers, see point #2 above.
If you claim to have had lunch with a dragon, then I have to evaluate this based on other information. Have similar claims been made about dragons eating lunch with humans before (and not having them FOR lunch)? What about other creatures - are they known for sharing a meal with humans?

Notice how the nature of your conditional acceptance changes the moment you reach the supernatural claim; for all the mundane claims your solution is "if I have additional knowledge that corroborates the initial claim," but for the supernatural one suddenly it's "do a lot of people make this claim?"

Actually, that was just an example of the type of questions I might ask. But what you skipped over is the fact that I also asked myself similar questions for the first three claims.

1. Is Equislax even married? Is his wife out of town for the week? Are they separated or divorced? The questions may not ACTUALLY be asked...but our minds work such that in a flash, we know when something does or does not line up with all the other things we know to be true about you, your wife, and the circumstances which may or may not prevent or enable you to have lunch with her on any given day. "I had lunch with my wife." "Oh? I thought she had a new job across town...", etc, etc.

Why are you expecting more evidence for the claims you at least know are possible, but less evidence- no evidence at all, in fact- for the claims you have every reason to think are impossible? Could it be that a consistent application of requiring evidence in accordance with the nature of the claim would mean your god claims do not have sufficient evidence backing them up?

I have not done this. You may note that I have spent considerable time arguing FOR the evidence of Christianity.

You may recall that I said we accept what reliable and knowledgeable people have said - in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

You may recall that I and others have rejected this fiat, simplistic assertion from you, and explained that the metric involves more calculus than just "are they reliable?" and "can I prove them wrong?" You may also recall what the burden of proof is, and in doing so, recall that you're trying to reverse it.

The fact that you continue to assert the same refuted point does not suddenly make you right.

You claim that it has been refuted.

Now, many in this forum have suggested that they would not believe their ten best friends or their wives, etc. if they were told about an extraordinary encounter with God. Well, I suppose skeptics do exist. Maybe they are all atheists.

But I think that there is a greater likelihood that someone could see Jesus than that they could have lunch with a dragon for the simple reason that seeing Jesus or hearing from God is a common claim. Having lunch with a dragon is not.

So the commonality of a claim influences its truth value? The existence of other gods are common claims elsewhere in the world; if you're privileging your god over theirs you must have some additional premises involved that you're trying to hide.

That does not follow. The "truth value" is independent of whether many or few people believe it. However, over time, people generally find their way to the truth, so IF large numbers of people believe a thing, it might be true OR false, but either way, the numbers would at least suggest some investigation.

A common claim can still be mistaken...it is not proof of anything. But my own experience and that of people who I know well leads me to believe that "lunch with Jesus" is far more likely than lunch with the Avengers or a dragon.

So what you're saying is, you'll believe a claim that all the evidence available shows to be impossible, if you trust the person making the claim? If your dad converted to islam, you'd accept the existence of Allah as true?

I have repeated said the opposite. In fact, I did in the very passage you just responded to.

You don't, for a moment, want to consider how much a nebulous concept like what you personally find to be reliable can be altered by how much what the claimant is saying matches the things you already believe to be true? Because we have a term for that: it's confirmation bias.

I understand confirmation bias. That's what this forum thrives on.

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This is the last post I made (on p. 76), asking Randy why he should be good, literally the topic of this thread.  He's answered countless people since then, but not once answering that simple question; the question that he titled the thread:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-33629-po...#pid960838

Randy, why is it so hard for you to tell us why you're good?  Many people have answered that question, but you haven't, and you're the OP.  It's time now.

Gee, despite the fact that I have repeatedly said that I would like to do some reading in order to be able to formulate a GOOD reply, you (and others) insist on an answer now.

I have to leave for work in 15 minutes, and I need to grab a shower...can I really do the question justice in the next few minutes? Probably not. So, this is NOT what I might have written if I had more time, but here goes:

In brief, if I am "good", it is because of the trajectory my life is on as a result of my faith in Jesus Christ. Apart from that, I, like anyone else, am capable of anything - even the worst sins. Here is an analogy:

Once, I was once like a comet racing through space completely independent of anything else. However, by God's grace, I was captured by His gravitational field, and now, I orbit my Lord and Savior. Even though my sinful nature is constantly pushing me outward (concupisence is the inertia that would shoot me out into darkness), God's hold on my life keeps me in orbit. (His grace is the centripetal force that keeps me following Him.) 

And, praise God, it is a death spiral. Little by little, inch by inch, in this life and the next (purgatory), I am dying to myself as I am drawn into the Son.