(June 10, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:(June 10, 2015 at 7:21 pm)Jenny A Wrote: You just explained why I cannot be a believer. The claim is that something unfalsifiable in the present happened in the past. That thing is miraculous (meaning extraordinarily improbable).
But not impossible, correct? However unlikely, it is still possible?
Yes but many, many, many times more improbable the winning the lottery (someone always wins), or the big bang, in fact right up there with the laws of physics changing randomly.
(June 10, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:Quote:Nothing in the present proves or disproves that the event happened. So, it's improbable and unproven. I don't believe it for just that reason. The fact that I could not prove it is the reason I don't believe it.
You don't believe anything you can't prove? Personally prove?
No, I don't believe anything that is both highly improbable and that I can't prove. I'm perfectly happy to believe you had lunch with your wife Tuesday, if you say so. Though given evidence to the contrary I'd change my mind.
(June 10, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:Quote:If you could and did prove it, I would believe it.
Least you think this is a no win situation, let me remind you you are claiming an omnipotent being. Surely Jesus could step in and prove his ability to rise from the dead over and over, should he exist and desire to do so. But like the charlatan claiming esp his followers demand a leap of faith and claim he won't demonstrate to this generation. Essentially, the god claim is just like other supernatural claims in this regard. The claim is that something non demonstrable exists. And my answer is possible, but highly, improbable. Too improbable to waste time on.
Ah. Possible. That's something, I suppose.
What kind of proof could Jesus provide to you, Jenny, that would enable you and everyone else on earth to believe that He is God?
Oh, just about anything godly demonstrably happening in the present. Suppose a booming voice announced from the sky that a second earth would be created tomorrow and be shown orbiting the sun? And sure enough tomorrow there it was. That would do it for me. Of course it could be very clever aliens with very advanced tech, but at that point the difference between aliens and god would be pretty slim.
I did mention the idea that Jesus might demonstrate resurrection repeatedly for the disbelieving. Why not? If he's god, he gave us the brains to demand that level of proof. No need for the pain of crucifixion. Just a living man demonstrably dead getting up and going about living over and over until the scientists are satisfied would do just fine.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.