The right to mis-define oneself

[Thumpalumpacus]

Stop making everything a pissing match.  I don't have the guts?  Well, I'll show you, you yellow-bellied good-for nothing low-lying snake in the grass!

Seriously, though, "I think you're lying because X seems so obvious to me that it's hard to believe others don't see it" is not the same as "You're a liar."

Seriously, you deny calling me a liar, then call me a liar again, and then bristle when I tell you to fuck off?

Your explanation holds no water, because there is a difference between lying and making a mistake. I don't have the time nor the patience to argue with someone who cannot be bothered to learn such a simple distinction, and prefers insulting someone's integrity to learning their own native tongue.

Okay, so you and I have different perceptions of how the average male may feel.  You suggest that's because I'm projecting my own attitudes on the general population-- but I've seen enough men express similar opinions that I don't believe that to be the case.

I am going to ask you once more for numbers. How many?

 

I think it's likely that you are ALSO projecting your own values onto others, and that those have been validated by your own different experiences of other's men's behavior in certain situation.

Having managed an adult video store in SoCal which functioned as a meeting place for people at the small ends of the sexual bell curve, I'm comfortable with the knowledge that my opinion is informed by knowing many of the folks we're talking about here. I've yet to see any qualification of yours beyond a finely-honed sense of "eeeeww".

 But whether it's rape, or assault, or just rudeness, it doesn't really matter with regards to the OP.  The OP is about the difference between living AS something and the reality of BEING that thing, and I do agree that gender issues are less cut-and-dry as other issues.  At least I hope nobody here will draw a line from transgender issues to transracial ones as in the OP.

Since you don't seem to have read it even though I've posted it at least three times, I will repeat it, last time, because I'm tired of this conversation and of you in general. Last time: I am not arguing your main point, only against your thoughtless comparison.

Except that you didn't until I pointed it out.  Not the height of intellectual honesty there.

I think you're being an asshole right now.  You challenged me on backpedalling and I fucking agreed with you, and stated why I was changing my tack.  What more do you expect?

Well I WOULD be traumatized, and why should I be embarrassed to state so?  In my life, I've had an old guy pee on me, a middle-aged guy jerk off to me when I was a teen in a catholic charities hostel, another guy pick me up off a cold bench, take me home (again as a teen) and ask me if I ever masturbated, and a variety of other near-misses and mishaps.  None of this is rape, but it made me feel dirty and uncomfortable, and I think in all cases it was a form of self-validation through sexual or pseudo-sexual aggression.

Wait, who said you should be embarrasssed to state your opinion? I surely didn't. Go on, quote the post and link to it.

Oh, that's right, you can't, because I didn't say that. I said that I think your comparison is thoughtless.

And that's what you're not getting.  A woman who went home with me and had sex with me is providing me with a happy and validating experience, because I'm straight.  A transwoman who goes home with me and surprising me is acting aggressively in a situation which makes me vulnerable, which I think is a non-trivial violation of my personhood.  The trauma doesn't come from the wiener.  It comes from the fail to disclose

Calling that an aggressive act is silly. I've linked to the definition, for your edification.

Join the club.

I'm sorry to hear of it.

I don't need to compare it to rape.

Yet you did, and when the bullshit comparison was pointed out, instead of discarding it as unnecessary, you dug your heels in. The inability to admit error is bad enough; embracing unnecessary error is folly multiplied.

 My point is that if a natural-born woman and a transgender person with a penis go into a sexual encounter with the exact same behavior, then I'd consider the actions of the former as validating, and the actions of the latter as aggressive, invalidating, and offensive.  The difference matters, and cannot be trivialized. . . because one is a woman, and the other, at least physically, is not-- no matter how he/she identifies.

I'm not saying that your surprise penis scenario is acceptable. I'm saying it is not an aggressive, violent crime which leaves scars that last a lifetime. That is why your comparison is silly, and that is why your intransigence defending it is mystifying.

You can have the last word in the matter. I'm done discussing this, and probably any other topic, with you.