What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[robvalue]

I totally agree with how you determine morality, CL. I think however you are added another unnecessary layer by demanding someone has set these rules.

If you want to point to anything, it would be evolution. We have worked out this way, that's how we are. It doesn't need any magic ingredient. Clearly we don't all agree on morality, so there's no reason to think there is an actual "right" answer because it depends entirely on how you value different things. For example I put a much higher value on animals than most people, and so I tolerate far less on their behalf than most people do. I'm not right, other people are not right, we just have different values. You have to establish those values before you can make comparisons. It just so happens that we do share an awful lot of values, so we can build a pretty decent framework around that.

If there is a god, I couldn't care less what his opinion is. I work out what is moral for myself. And it's based almost entirely around that one rule you gave. Who needs God for that?