(June 17, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:
- No miracles can occur in the nature of things.
- #1 logically follows because, of course, under fundamental atheist presuppositions, there is no God to perform any miracle.
- The New Testament documents are fundamentally untrustworthy and historically suspect, having been written by gullible, partisan Christians; particularly because, for most facts presented therein, there is not (leaving aside archaeological evidences) written secular corroborating evidence.
- Some atheists even claim (or suspect) that Jesus didn't exist at all (making such a topic even more absurd and ludicrous (given that premise) than it already is in atheist eyes).
This isn't exactly how I would word these. Mine might sound a little more like this:
1. There is currently no evidenced reason to believe that miracles occur in nature.
2. There is no currently no evidenced reason to believe that any gods exist.
3. There is observable evidence to suggest that the bible contradicts observable reality on various points, and furthermore there is evidence to suggest that the bible is a collection of mythical stories conceived, written, and influenced by humans with the purposes of explaining things they did not understand and ordering society as they saw fit.
4. There is currently no evidenced reason to believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed at all, and even if he did there is no evidenced reason to believe that the wild, fantastical, biblical claims about him are true.
5. Scripture is the claim, and is therefore NEVER proof of itself.
To eliminate any one of these suppositions, all you have to do is use evidence to prove it false and unreasonable. Until then, there is no reason to consider the question of whether god exists in our reality without these suppositions in place.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com