(July 6, 2015 at 12:36 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:(July 6, 2015 at 9:25 am)SteveII Wrote: God's "immoral" acts in the OT does not advance your argument against the existence of God. You would have to demonstrate that God either 1) did not have the right or 2) did not have suffient reasons for doing what he did. Since, if Christianity is true, everyone is eventually judged for their actions, you can't claim 1. Since you do not possess an infinite mind that can grasp the trillions of consequences of each action, you cannot claim 2: God did not have sufficient reason.
Your entire 'reasoning' already already presupposes the existence of your god, so your argument is fallacious. Regarding 1, the notion of might makes right is inherently immoral. Just because, for argument's sake, your god created the universe, it does not follow that he should be judge, jury, and executioner over it. If we have free will, then treating us as objects to be discarded in a pit of fire for simply not giving god what it wants is immoral. Your god is supposedly infinite, yet the only system it can come up with is one that results in no chance to learn and change?
And your response to 2 is simply the argument from ignorance fallacy. You need to do better than that in defense of your god.
I'm assuming you're an American. It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to value freedom, liberty, and personal responsibility in this life are so willing to be ruled by a monarch in the next. It's utterly baffling to me that anyone would want to be, literally, lorded over.
I was not setting out to prove the existence of God. I was responding to your charge that the Christian God is immoral. Although it seems when some point of doctrine is explained to one of you, often, it seems, the response "you can't prove God...so there! comes up."
Regarding 1, you are right, might does not make right. On what basis do you say that God cannot be judge jury and executioner? If you happen to be God, then you are always right--by definition. Can you imagine what infinite is? Can you imagine what omniscient and omnipotent are? No, it is beyond any of us. Take those characteristics and apply them to the attributes of perfectly moral and perfectly just. You presume to know what that would look like. I understand the theories of how we could have developed a certain "morality" if we did indeed evolve (good for the herd and all), but where in the world do you get the standard of morality by which to judge an infinite God. Certainly your evolved sensibilities cannot be the basis!
Regarding 2, since we are talking about a God whom, according to some doctrines, surveyed all possible worlds in which man had free will and chose the one with the greatest eternal good, we are in no position to object to anything God chose or chooses to do. This is in no way an argument from ignorance if, while we do not know each specific result, we understand the end game of an infinite mind that can handle the trillions of choices made every day by everyone until the end of time.
In general, you seem to be judging God with a combination of 1) lack of understanding for what it means to be God, and 2) some subjective measures that has no basis in reality. Perhaps a look at the list of the attributes of God will give a fuller understanding of the term.
