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Why are we here?
RE: Why are we here?
(July 6, 2015 at 3:46 pm)SteveII Wrote: Regarding this subject, I found a blog post from WLC answering your same questions (almost word for word):

WLC, lmao.

Quote:P2: A perfectly good being would not torture anyone for any period whatever, however brief. The word “torture” is pejorative; the question is whether a perfectly good being would punish someone for any period of time. The answer is, of course, he would! Otherwise he wouldn’t be perfectly good, for he would not be perfectly just.

Of course torture is pejorative.  What else would you call sending someone down to a furnace of fire where the person will be tormented with fire and brimstone?  Words taken directly from your bible.

Quote:P3 A just being wouldn’t punish someone eternally for the sins committed during a brief lifetime but would proportion the punishment to the offense. I answered this in the debate itself. The brevity of time it took to commit the crime is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the crime that matters. Punishment should be apportioned to the seriousness of the crime. I suggested that even if God does allot a finite punishment for every sin, still, since the denizens of hell continue to hate and reject God, they continue to sin and so accrue to themselves more punishment, so that both sinning and the punishment go on forever. Alternatively, the sin of rejecting God Himself is a sin of infinite gravity and proportion and so plausibly merits an infinite punishment.

Since we're finite beings, any crimes we commit are finite in seriousness by definition.  Eternal punishment for finite crimes is immoral.

Quote:P4 A righteous being would not punish someone eternally for unavoidable lack of belief. I agree; but unbelief is always avoidable. God has given a general revelation of Himself in the world, and by His Holy Spirit He seeks to draw all persons to salvation. He judges people based on their response to the light that they have. The Bible says that all men are without excuse for not believing in a Creator God, since unbelief is not due to lack of information but to a perverse will which suppresses the truth (Romans 1.19-21).

This relies on the premise that your god is the truth.  Unbelievers don't want to suppress the truth.  We simply are not convinced that your god is the truth.  That's a far cry different than how he/the bible characterizes it.  Perverse will.  LMAO, talk about pejorative terms.

Quote:P5 A merciful being would not be eternally unforgiving to those who have offended it. Suppose pardon is offered but refused. Where does the fault lie? The offended party has a forgiving attitude but the perpetrator refuses reconciliation. Even the inhabitants of hell persist in their hatred and rejection of God. So God is forgiving, but His pardon is null and void if rejected. If people reject Christ’s payment for their sins, the only person left to pay the penalty for sin is oneself.

A bit of a strawman.  The inhabitants in hell persist in their hatred and rejection of god because god deemed that the only punishment fitting unbelief is eternal torture.  And that torture never, ever lets up, so the denizens in hell are never offered a pardon.  Torture is an incredibly poor mechanism to employ when you want to bring people willingly into your eternal love.  A smarter god would know that.

Quote:P6 A loving being would not bring about and perpetuate the suffering of those it loves. This is obviously false. Do parents hate their children when they inflict painful discipline on them? Do judges and juries hate the defendants when they pronounce them guilty and sentence them to prison and even to death? That is absurd. Of course one can love the guilty party deserving of punishment!

Those punishments, with exception to the death penalty (which, not coincidentally, is quickly losing popularity in civilized, educated countries) are all finite.  Furthermore, it's not a matter of pain, but injury.  A spanking is a hell (heh) of a lot different than being placed in a furnace, and prisoners are still afforded their human rights.  Their punishment comes from being separated from society, not in beatings.

Quote:Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/bradley-o...z3f8sdrMwJ

If what you posted is any indication, I really don't need to.  A bunch of crap that only assuages those believers who are beginning to doubt themselves.  Nothing even remotely compelling to those of us who know better.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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Messages In This Thread
Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 20, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2015 at 1:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 20, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by loganonekenobi - July 5, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - July 5, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Longhorn - June 20, 2015 at 1:29 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Chad32 - June 20, 2015 at 1:42 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by robvalue - June 20, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 20, 2015 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Jackalope - June 21, 2015 at 11:52 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 20, 2015 at 4:11 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Whateverist - June 20, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 20, 2015 at 8:02 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 20, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 20, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Whateverist - June 20, 2015 at 10:20 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 20, 2015 at 11:11 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 22, 2015 at 2:01 am
RE: Why are we here? - by brewer - June 22, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 21, 2015 at 11:52 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Whateverist - June 22, 2015 at 1:36 am
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 21, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 21, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Bob Kelso - June 21, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 22, 2015 at 11:39 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 22, 2015 at 4:49 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 23, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by FatAndFaithless - June 23, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by FatAndFaithless - June 23, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 23, 2015 at 3:38 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 23, 2015 at 4:43 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 23, 2015 at 3:38 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Simon Moon - June 23, 2015 at 3:47 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 23, 2015 at 5:59 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 21, 2015 at 11:54 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Chas - June 23, 2015 at 8:25 am
Why are we here? - by KUSA - June 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 20, 2015 at 10:52 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: Why are we here? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 21, 2015 at 6:52 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 21, 2015 at 11:59 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 21, 2015 at 6:16 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 21, 2015 at 11:07 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 21, 2015 at 11:37 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 22, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 22, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 22, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 22, 2015 at 10:03 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 24, 2015 at 1:44 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 24, 2015 at 10:45 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 24, 2015 at 11:34 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 24, 2015 at 11:55 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 25, 2015 at 12:15 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 25, 2015 at 10:20 am
RE: Why are we here? - by FatAndFaithless - June 25, 2015 at 10:20 am
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 25, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 25, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2015 at 7:57 am
Why are we here? - by TubbyTubby - June 22, 2015 at 4:28 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Bob Kelso - June 22, 2015 at 6:20 am
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 22, 2015 at 4:30 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 22, 2015 at 5:39 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 22, 2015 at 6:55 am
RE: Why are we here? - by robvalue - June 22, 2015 at 1:49 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 22, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 22, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 22, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by downbeatplumb - June 23, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: Why are we here? - by TubbyTubby - June 23, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 23, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 3:27 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Godschild - June 23, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by TubbyTubby - June 23, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 23, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by professor - June 23, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 23, 2015 at 9:19 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 23, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 23, 2015 at 9:55 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 23, 2015 at 9:30 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by professor - June 23, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 23, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - June 23, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 23, 2015 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Simon Moon - June 24, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 24, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 23, 2015 at 10:49 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 10:53 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 23, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by The Valkyrie - June 23, 2015 at 10:58 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - June 25, 2015 at 11:36 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Jenny A - June 25, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - June 26, 2015 at 8:43 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 26, 2015 at 8:55 am
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 26, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by ignoramus - June 26, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 8:21 am
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 26, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 27, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 27, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 27, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 27, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 11:46 am
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 11:50 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 11:55 am
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 2:17 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 29, 2015 at 3:02 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 3:47 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 30, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 30, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 30, 2015 at 4:09 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 30, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - June 30, 2015 at 4:27 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - June 30, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - July 1, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 9:25 am
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - July 6, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 3:41 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - July 6, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cato - June 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 30, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 30, 2015 at 4:42 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - July 5, 2015 at 3:51 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 9:49 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Longhorn - June 26, 2015 at 9:04 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 29, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 29, 2015 at 9:20 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 9:43 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 9:44 am
RE: Why are we here? - by IATIA - July 6, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 7, 2015 at 12:08 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 29, 2015 at 10:43 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 11:51 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 29, 2015 at 11:56 am
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Tonus - June 29, 2015 at 1:15 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 29, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Ravenshire - July 5, 2015 at 12:35 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Pyrrho - July 5, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 9:39 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Spooky - June 30, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Spooky - June 30, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 30, 2015 at 3:32 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - June 30, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by abaris - June 30, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by SteveII - July 6, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Why are we here? - by Dragonetti - July 5, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Whateverist - July 5, 2015 at 12:19 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Dragonetti - July 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Dragonetti - July 5, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Dragonetti - July 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: Why are we here? - by Cyberman - July 6, 2015 at 9:35 am
RE: Why are we here? - by KevinM1 - July 6, 2015 at 4:11 pm

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