A pantheistic argument.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're not addressing my argument. You're just saying "I still don't believe".

I have addressed it repeatedly, without turning your "if" into an "is" your argument is DOA (for me).

If god is the universe and you believe in the universe then you believe in god[/b]. That is undeniably tautologically valid logical reasoning. If X is Y and you believe in Y then you believe in X.

......and -if- two cents were a fortune I'd be a millionaire, pity eh?

If the belief is the same then the label is describing the same thing.

But unfortunately it is not the same, remember that three line argument all the way back at the beginning of this....that's a glaring difference between you and I in what we mean by "god" or "universe". The thing in question is the same -for you-....but you have not compelled me to adopt your definition. That the thing in question is the same (for you) still has no ability to change the rob the word "atheist" of it's meaning, mostly because you yourself are ruling the word "god" into your statements. As I have said many times, it matters very little how you define your god, and it isn't up to me to define your god for you, but if it is god then at least fucking own it man.....

If I believe in the universe and label it "god" I am merely describing "god" as the universe.

-and the universe as god, they are identical, correct?

What we believe in is the same, and the description is the same, merely the name is different.

"Merely"..... plus one shady premise, an ambiguous assertion, and a conclusion that follows only because it was implicitly designed as such from that shady premise.

Which is why if atheists believe in the universe and if god is the universe then there is a logical contradiction.

Which is why your -if- is incapable of making your point. But look at what you say directly below this.....

All I'm saying is that the meaning of believing in something is different to the meaning of labelling it as something. So if I label the universe as "god" then that doesn't mean that I believe in god.

Doesn't seem to be the case from where I'm standing. However, if that were the case, If your labeling the universe as god (or god as the universe) doesn't mean that you believe in god, then why would my believing in the universe mean that I believed in god?

If I merely define god as the universe, then what I actually believe in is the universe, just like you, the belief is the same - merely the label is different.

I think you've attempted to take too many liberties with language, which results in communication becoming nigh impossible. I also think you've extended the implications of those liberties entirely too far in the absence of developing the argument that this all stems from. The label describes the thing being believed in, which is in one case god and in another case "just the universe"...now I know..I know..you keep saying "just the universe", but if that were so you wouldn't have required an argument in an attempt to manufacture parity between the two terms. Not that this actually matters.......because you have not even attempted to show that the argument is sound.