Dr. Doug Graham (80-10-10 raw vegan)

[The Grand Nudger]

We can argue all day about what is the best diet, but one thing is certain and that is that you can be healthy with a vegan diet.

With additional supplements from decidely non-vegan sources, sure.

You only need to kill that man for pleasure and convenience, which I do not think is a good enough reason to make a being suffer.

If it's a need that I do so- so be it. I can't do anything about my needs. I think you're leaving out some fairly important details about food production here to reduce meat to an issue of pleasure or convenience.

Let's take it one step further; if you did not only kill a man here and there, but you breed billions upon billions of humans to exploit them, feed them obese and then kill them in the end, what kind of person are you?

Inhumane, but am I doing this, and does this need to be done to produce livestock? Nope, and nope.

Because that's what's happening with animals, the deaths are equal to thousands of holocausts every single year. Should we not all strive to minimize suffering?

Yup, by thoroughly integrating livestock production into our overall food production policies and phasing out unsustainable and deleterious oil-to-food schemes.

It is also to be noted that the whole thing about painless killing is absolutely worthless if before it happens the animals are brought in screaming and horrified.

Sounds shitty - definitely not best practice (and probably costs alot of money in lost efficiency). You can argue against poor practice all day long - I'm right there with you.

There's a middle road here, you aren't having a discussion with someone who thinks that ag as practiced is a very good idea...even if all of the things that you think about it -aren't true- let alone whether or not they are. Your objections aren't really required for me to hold a negative position on the matter, and that's good, because some of them are just meh. You don't need them to advocate for a change in food policy or the humane treatment of animals either. I would actually suggest that carrying that baggage makes the job even more difficult.