RE: Why science and religious fatih need not be in conflict: It's as easy as 1-2-3!
May 1, 2017 at 3:04 pm
Not sure why I bother; but anyways…
First, the naturalist would have others dismiss all miracles as impossible based on his own indefensible metaphysical commitment to physical causal closure.
Next, the core mystery of the Christian faith is the resurrection. The scriptural records of Resurrection are not based on the personal ecstatic visions of a revered mystic; but rather, purport to be historical testimony of observed events surrounding the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Next, your point rests on the idea that apprehension of the divine is limited to some exclusive priestly class. The prompting of the Holy Spirit is He who calls all Christian believers to faith. As such faith is a kind of gnosis, analogous to memory or perception.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” –Eph 2:8
“So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” – Romans 10:17
Finally, core mystery of the Christian faith is the culmination of a long tradition, attested to by a unified narrative that traces across centuries and by various authors.
“Then Jesus said to them, ‘O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?’ And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.” – Luke 24:25-27
That’s right. But I’m not seeing the problem.
“…That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” – 1 Cor 2:5
“When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.” – Proverbs 11:2
“Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.” – James 4:10
“…the Scriptures say, ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.’ So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.” - 1 Cor 1:18-25
Even Thomas Aquanis, after his epiphany, exclaimed, “All I have done is as straw!”
This is indeed the glory of science that it can help illuminate for us the mind of God and His Providence through the book of nature. I simply do not understand this fanatical obsession to set faith and science as mutually exclusive.
I don’t get it, Whateverist. What’s your point?
(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: 1) Think about the core mystery of your religion. (Okay, I'll break "think about" down for you; I realize you may be a little out of shape.) Whatever it is that you think of as supernatural, consider how it is that anyone ever found out about that stuff. I mean all of the priest class agrees you can't detect it with an instrument of science nowadays.There are a couple of ways to address this.At this point you have to decide whether your faith is in the core mystery of your religion or the claims of some ancient scribes. …
First, the naturalist would have others dismiss all miracles as impossible based on his own indefensible metaphysical commitment to physical causal closure.
Next, the core mystery of the Christian faith is the resurrection. The scriptural records of Resurrection are not based on the personal ecstatic visions of a revered mystic; but rather, purport to be historical testimony of observed events surrounding the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Next, your point rests on the idea that apprehension of the divine is limited to some exclusive priestly class. The prompting of the Holy Spirit is He who calls all Christian believers to faith. As such faith is a kind of gnosis, analogous to memory or perception.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” –Eph 2:8
“So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” – Romans 10:17
Finally, core mystery of the Christian faith is the culmination of a long tradition, attested to by a unified narrative that traces across centuries and by various authors.
“Then Jesus said to them, ‘O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?’ And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.” – Luke 24:25-27
(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: 2) Okay, if you got past step one you now realize that faith requires open ended-ness. You can't dictate the details of God's nature or intentions. If you're feeling a little insecure and humbled, you're actually on the right path now. Keep it up.
That’s right. But I’m not seeing the problem.
“…That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” – 1 Cor 2:5
“When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.” – Proverbs 11:2
“Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.” – James 4:10
“…the Scriptures say, ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.’ So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.” - 1 Cor 1:18-25
Even Thomas Aquanis, after his epiphany, exclaimed, “All I have done is as straw!”
(May 1, 2017 at 12:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: 3) Next step, think about the nature of science. It is not a body of facts. It is a method of empirical investigation, the observational facts and theories which arise are always subject to reinterpretation. But the beauty is in the openness of process and how readily one can assess the soundness of the experiments proposed to test the hypotheses. You can trust science-the-method to investigate the nature of the empirical world more than any other method ever proposed. In the absence of an authoritative alternative, scientific theory represents the best operating hypotheses for what's out there. Embrace it, it won't bite - and cannot conflict with your religious faith if done correctly. You may now walk in faith regarding the central mysteries of who and what we are and any purposes you feel accrues to that, keeping in mind that little ole' you do not control the nature of that mystery; presumably the actual state of affairs is vice versa. But by picking up and embracing the mantle of science you need not go blindly into the (empirical) world. Rather you may stride confidently knowing you enjoy the fruits of a long history of careful investigation, which at its core is just as humble and open as you're now trying to be. That's it. Carry on.
This is indeed the glory of science that it can help illuminate for us the mind of God and His Providence through the book of nature. I simply do not understand this fanatical obsession to set faith and science as mutually exclusive.
I don’t get it, Whateverist. What’s your point?
