Believing Vs Claiming to Believe

[The Reality Salesman01]

Does God approve of something because it is Holy?

-or

Is something Holy because God approves it


Should I ask the question that’s being begged, or do I just assume you don’t know?

You ask whatever you like and assume whatever tickles your fancy, I'm not playing your game. I gave you the correct answer to your above questions.

When you answered that it is neither. You implied that it is something else. However, you didn’t say what it was. So, it begs the question, what makes something holy?

I did not say that, you should read what I said and not what you want said. Did I say the scriptures were holy, I do not think so, they do teach holiness.

The scriptures give examples of things that take part in holiness, this is true. That is not what my question was. Perhaps I’m being too vague.
Take approval for example. You see that there is a difference between something that gets approved, and something being approved. For something to be holy, is there a certain criteria that God approves as holy, or is something holy because God approves it?
For anybody to follow God, and strive to be holy, would they not need a direction on what to strive for? I’m asking you for how one can know that. You can tell me to read the scripture, and it’s apparent that you doubt that I have, but the answer to my question is necessary if I am to acquire the right interpretation when I read it. Do you not agree that some people get the wrong interpretation of what they think God wants from them? Do you not agree that they have mistaken what is actually holy? Do you not believe that you, yourself know what God considers holy while you recognize that others have mistaken? I’m asking you to tell me. I’m not coding it, It’s not a baited question. I am not being condescending, I’m asking you a very legitimate question that pertains directly to the words you have shared. I’m merely asking questions and drawing inferences from your answers to them.

You would deny the truth no matter what, you've already done that in the past

Deny truth? You accuse me of this with no example? I have told you that if you present truth I will not be able to deny it. Is 2 and 2 four? Would I be a fool to deny it? If I did, would it be ever so easy for you to show how I am wrong? Give me an example of the truth you claim I’ve denied, as that is the worst thing I could do.

Paul writes that the weak will fall away, Jesus said the same thing in parables. You were in church didn't you study the scriptures and see those things, I did.

I think this is the first genuine attempt you’ve made to really explain your resistance to my questions. I appreciate it.
You believe it is weak to fall away from one’s belief because it says so in The Bible. You have stated that you question God and this questioning has lead you to an affirmation of things you already believed were true.
This scripture suggests that there is something inherently weak about a person if their questioning that seeks answers not yet found, yet leads to doubt VS questioning that seeks answers and finds affirmation?
This suggests that the affirmed conclusion derived from the questioning is the stronger conclusion. This is a claim that must easily be justified with reasons that would support the stronger of the two conclusions. You seem to endorse this opinion by Paul, give me your reasons that make an affirming conclusion stronger than one that leads to doubt.

My testimony was not part of your assumption, you left Christianity before we started to have discussions.
In the above I'm not referring to searching for God, I'm referring to after we became Christians. The reason I know they did, because of the way they deal with questions, the Holy Spirit reveals more than you can imagine.

The way you answer questions is very similar to how they answer questions. The way they answer questions is the way my mother answers questions. The way my mother answers questions is the way I used to answer them. There is nothing foreign about the answers that are provided to questions that seek answers. When a Christian asks a question in church, they are seeking an answer that reaffirms what already gives them comfort to believe.

I am genuinely open to hearing something you have to say that may cause me to form a belief and agree with you. Why am I not asking Atheists questions about Holiness and Faith? I would only be seeking affirmation. I'm asking somebody that may present something new that has a potential to being incompatible with what I previously thought, and I am willing to accept that answer through honest self reflection if it is true.

If somebody told me at 17 that they were having a crisis with faith, I would tell them to pray. I would tell them to remember to put Christ first in everything you do. I would tell them that God will tell them what they needed to hear when they were ready to listen. This is very much what you say here. Go to a Christian forum, you'll find threads dedicated to that very thing, filled with similar stereotypical resonses. If one wants to believe that they have the answers, very much like I once insisted that I did, they will only consider the ones that reinforce that belief. There is nothing comforting about professing that I don't know. What motive would I have for rejecting things that are so clearly true to perpetuate a life of insisted ignorance? Everything you say, I am listening to. But keep in mind, you may not be the first one to tell me what you have to say, and I may not have found it convincing from them either because I too may have said it to someone else at a different time.

If you find your words have no impact, consider taking a new approach. If it is truth, like 2+2 is 4, than this truth can be conveyed with the right words.

"Faith" is the first step to knowledge of God,

Thank you again, as this is another attempt to defend a clear position. You have stated that you use “faith” as an epistemology. Now, we have something we can talk about.
I will end my thoughts with this final response to “faith”.
It would be easy for me to tell you what “faith” means. But my definition doesn’t matter. If I am to be sincere in giving you an honest opportunity to explain your position, then it is your definition of “faith” as an epistemology that I will engage in discussion. So very shortly, if you wish to continue, give me your definition of the word.