Morals

[Edwardo Piet]

When it is said that life is meaningless without God it means...you can live a giving life but because life is unfair - it won't matter. You won't be treated how you deserve to be treated.

So are you saying that since life is not fair then, without God, it wouldn't matter to you that you can live a giving life?

Do you only give to get? What about give to give? That seems less moral to me. I think the fact that life is unfair and not everyone will get repayed, and yet some people still go on giving anyway... is a more noble reason to be moral - and in my mind, more moral - than only being moral if life is "fair", and only being moral if you get treated perfectly justly in return.

I think the fact that one can be moral without needing to always be treated perfectly justly in return, just shows how capable of being truly moral one is.

Without God in mind, people in the long run tend to focus on making sure they are treated well, whether they deserve it or not.

Not the decent people. Some people actually care, and some people actually care regardless of if they always get treated perfectly in return, and regardless of if life is "fair"... fair in the "Godly" (almost certainly non-existent) way you expect it to be.

Hitler led Germany, what was a civil society, into being a genocide machine in no time. The idea that society is safe, gradually improving, and stable (from genocide, etc) because morals are a "cumulative reasoning exercise" is delusional.

Just because society can change when a dictator gets enough power, doesn't mean that morals aren't society-based. There are always setbacks, however large.

The 20th century was the bloodiest century ever (from deaths by atrocity per population).

The 20th century also had a lot more dangerous weapons and arms than any previous century. It's a lot easier for Hitler to do what he did with 20th century weapons. Who's to say if Genghis Khan had had such technology he wouldn't have been more or less as bad? He was also one sick bastard like Hitler was, but the technology to do what Hitler did wasn't even possible in his time.

There have been sick bastards all throughout history. But the weapons have certainly been a lot bigger and more dangerous in this last century or so.

EvF