The Newly Departed thread: announcements (departures)

[Catholic_Lady]

I think this is a gross oversimplification.  From what I understand, Tibs unilaterally created that section without the support of staff, which, as far as I know, hasn't been how any new rules or subsections have been implemented in my time here.

There's also the fundamental question of who is this new section for?  We already have a debate section.  In fact, the very Christians who left used it to discuss their feelings regarding the forum before they left.  Seems to me like it's working as intended.  Moreover, I find it odd that the same people who have lamented not having a serious conversation hardly ever took advantage of the existing apparatus.  Given that they coordinated both their exit and return, one would think they could figure out who would want to be involved in discussing topics like "Was sin necessary for knowledge?"

And it's not like there aren't tools in place to deal with abuse if it's actually happening.  We can ignore people.  It's not a perfect implementation, but it's there.  We can report people.

Frankly, I think a lot of their disappointment is that a lot of us don't take their religion nearly as seriously as they do.  Where they see centuries of philosophy, scholarship, and tradition, we see a layer cake of absurdity which has created an institutionalized system of actual abuse that deserves derision (not just the RCC).  And for those who do take it seriously, again, there's the debate section.  Or, perhaps, the philosophy section, which seems to be more serious by virtue of the subject matter.

So, for me (and I'm guessing others), it's not a matter of free speech, but rather unilaterally creating a new area purposely set aside for a handful of people no longer willing to engage the rest of us according to the terms we all agreed to when we made our user accounts, despite there being mechanisms already in place that address their concerns.

I don't care about religious discussion. I rarely take part in it, I don't see the point. I see the irony, since this is AtheistForums.org, but I mostly stick to news and politics. If you've noticed, those threads are absolute shitshows. There have been countless examples of times where I am trying to discuss policy issues with someone I disagree with. In the middle of discussing the nuances of unemployment, tax laws, wages, etc users come in like a bulldozer insulting the other side and putting them down, interrupting my discussion and bringing everyone down to their level. I've noticed that the conservative users will be level-headed as long as our liberal users don't swear at them every 30 seconds. And I understand we have users who don't give a shit what the other side says and enjoys insulting; that's precisely why I was excited to have a section free from that! Because that's not the discussion I want.

I was extremely excited to discuss public policy issues in that subforum. Debating politics under those rules would have been so refreshing. As for the debate section, I'm going to echo RoadRunner's sentiments and say that I don't want a heavily structured debate. I'm busy, and I like responding on my own time, piece by piece. I just want a discussion that isn't riddled with insults, whataboutisms, and childish distraction. I don't get that on the general forum, whether it be about religion, politics, or philosophy. 

I just don't understand why users who weren't using it have an issue with its existence. Just don't go in it? I mean, come on. What was the harm in having it? I don't understand!

This post from Egg is a great example of why the section was not a "safe space" for theists, as some claimed.

There are plenty of atheists here who like the idea, including the forum creator himself. And there were plenty of posts and even threads from atheists in that section for the 2 days it existed. Also, everyone would have to abide by the same rules - theists and atheists alike, so the notion that the section was a way for theists to get special treatment is totally off base.

It even seems a bit insulting to Tibs that anyone would think he is interested in making a safe space for theists or give them (us) special treatment. From what I understand (and he can correct me if I'm wrong, as I have no intent on speaking for him) he liked the idea of such a section because he values diversity of thought here, and values productive discussion of differing views. Not because he was taken advantage of by a pack of theists and figured he'd just cave and give us what we want, like a coward. That's not him. And that isn't at all how things went down behind the scenes.

In fact, when I went back to re read through our group PM's, I saw that he actually brought up trying out the subforum before any of us did. That's right. He brought it up first.

For my own part, I wanted that section because I want to talk to you guys. Hear your views and share my own. It's the whole reason I sought out this forum. And as Egg explained above, it becomes increasingly tedious and not enjoyable to do so with all the shit posting.

Anyway, just wanted to make that all clear, if I hadn't effectively done so already.