Dr. Doug Graham (80-10-10 raw vegan)

[The Grand Nudger]

Name me one nutrient that I need and I cannot get a vegan supplement for.

Depends on whether or not you can reliably leverage bacterials (or any of the means of production/delivery for any supplement) and what brand of veganism one has thrown their chips in with.

Which details?

You ready for a long and disappointing discussion?

You're paying people to do these things, albeit not to humans but animals that suffer just as much. You know, Hitler didn't kill Jews personally, he paid people to do it, it doesn't make a difference ethically.

My money also goes to people who hurt people - there's no sense candy coating what my money may be or is being used for. Thing is, I don't have a whole lot of control over what happens to money when it is no longer mine. I think that if we want to start going over our relative contributions to misery with a fine toothed comb neither of us is going to come out very clean. I'm willing to give you a pass, I think that there are things beyond your control that your money is trickling into that say nothing about you, personally. I think that it would be unreasonable to expect someone to achieve the impossible just for the honor of not being called immoral. I'm content, personally, to pursue what I feel to be the best possible outcome given the reality of a situation. If more is required, I guess I'll just have to fall short. hrugs:

How would that reduce suffering?

You mean how, other than replacing a non-renewable input that is responsible for global environmental devastation, chronic political upheaval, and widespread social exploitation?

Yet you pay to support these practices.

Oh? You get ahold of one of my grocery receipts? You do some investigate work into the products that I buy? Thought not. But so what if I were? Do I have a choice?

Here's the problem with humane treatment; even if you treat the animals nicely (which is not happening in the world I live in), you should not treat them as property. It's slavery still.

-and here we find a more specific example that can be used to answer the very first question in your post. For you, any of the bacterial supplementals should be off the table (I'm really not sure that eating -anything- should be on the table in the first place). Wouldn't want to be a dirty bacterial slaveholder, now would we? I hope I don't have to field any complaints about a loose usage of the term slavery.........