Proof of God

[bennyboy]

Do children need guidance of their parents? Yes, indeed.

Yes, because children don't know anything about the world, and cannot survive well without their parents' advice.

Do elders need guidance of God? Yes, indeed.

"As above, so below" only works if the entity above is a real thing, and not a fairy tale.

The guidance of God is the only thing that has kept human societies away from relativism which if prevail shows that people’s basic ethical judgments would conflict even if they shared all the same factual beliefs and were fully enlightened as to the consequences of their views.

Be careful. We're not arguing the social value of the God idea. I myself see much value in it. We are arguing about whether God is real, and whether we have proof that God is real-- he seems not to be, and we certainly do not.

Honest observations and clear thoughts reveal that the world is full of injustice. Without having Divine Justice, one cannot differentiate between the death of a human and death of a dog and that exactly was the case in Stalin’s USSR.

The problem with you is you say shit without actually asking yourself if it's true before you post it. I can easily differentiate between the death of a human and of a dog, because humans walk upright, speak language, and have culture.

I am still waiting your response to my question:

Do you agree with the following statement of Dawkins?

“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, and other people are going to get lucky; and you won't find any rhyme or reason to it, nor any JUSTICE. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at the bottom, NO DESIGN, NO PURPOSE, NO EVIL AND NO GOOD. NOTHING BUT BLIND PITILESS INDIFFERENCE. DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is, and we dance to its music.”

I do not know whether this statement represents reality. There may be a God, or another context which defines right or wrong. But your constant efforts to change the subject are pointless. We are trying in this thread to decide whether there is proof of God-- and no amount of philosophical speculation represents proof.

Harris Wrote:
For a thinking person these points are sufficient for drawing a conclusion that a person trying to conceal obvious traces of the truth behind chaotic assumptions and empty commentaries that is only to emancipate his immediate self-interested desires.

Bennyboy Wrote:
Nope. For a thinking person, fairy tales are fairy tales, real knowledge is inferred from real observations, and never the twain shall meet.

What scientific observations you have on your own conscious experiences? First, try to explain your own internal and subjective component of sense perceptions, arising from stimulation of the senses by phenomena (your qualia) with the help of science and after that try to condemn the idea of God by using that very lame science.

Read what you quote. I didn't say "scientific observations," I said, "real observations," by which I meant using one's eyes, ears, and knowledge to determine whether things are real or false. None of these things add up to Sky Daddy watching teens masturbate and clearing out a place in hell, or to a woman getting beaten because she refuses to wear a fucking towel over her head.

And that's one more thing-- do you not see that if God is real, your religion's fucking insane cultural conventions are an insult to that real God? Do you not see that God, if real, made hair to cover a woman's head, and that the arrogance of thinking a man-made scarf is a better head cover is a sin against that God's purpose? Do you not see that God must have given us the enjoyment of taste to determine what is good to eat, and pigs and shellfish taste good and are therefore good to eat? Do you not see that God, if real, gave people the strong desire to engage in sex so they would engage in sex? I tell you, if God is a real entity, the back-asswards cultural conventions of middle-ages desert people is going to make him pissed-- imagine the arrogance of a bunch of uneducated misogynists thinking they are qualified to speak for a perfect Creator!