(March 7, 2016 at 8:56 pm)AJW333 Wrote:(March 6, 2016 at 1:01 pm)Mamacita Wrote: For some reason, I can't quote your reply to me, so this is just in response to your most recent reply to me.God could have made humanity with no free will. He could have created a bunch of automatons who never ever choose to do anything wrong. I would ask, what would be the point of that when you are a relational being?
I don't think you read your own responses. Read it again and find what's wrong with your answer. This is exactly what I meant with "arrogance". OK. Let me paint your picture for you:
All powerful god is sitting there looking at our little world and all our troubles. He's "interested in our lives" (your words). All these kids over here are being sold like cattle for sex slave purposes. All these women are being sold, too. People are starving to death. Haddassah (she's 19 months old) has a tumor in her liver. She had chemo for the first time yesterday. Allie (she's four) has had chemo way too many times to count by now, and all other kinds of painful procedures. Jesse's dad raped him since he was five until he was twelve, and now Jesse is in trouble with the law, because he tried to do the same thing to another kid in school. Your all powerful god sat through all of it. Then he takes a look into the future and notices that grandpa is going to get a stroke. Oh, no! He's important. What can he do to save his life? No, silly, not stop the stroke from happening. Not erase that incident from the plan, you crazy. He makes your wife and sister in law dream it, so they can ask him nicely first. "Ladies, I'm going to kill him, but you can change my mind if you pray to me."
Arrogant, you are.
Now lets be clear on something. I do not believe your god exists. Up until now, you have not presented any evidence. You have not convinced me that he is real. I'm not mad at your god for having such arrogant followers, because I can't be mad at someone I don't believe exists. I say this, because this is something you theists love to use as a weapon. I am, however, fucken tired of Christians telling me their god is interested in our lives. Not mad at their god, annoyed by the people who made him up. Why? How arrogant, selfish, and blind do you have to be to think that your story paints a loving god? I am a true believer that people with faith in a god tend to pick a god that matches their character. Your god (which again, let me be clear, is most likely fictitious) is an asshole. Match the god to the followers.
In summary:
A) Interested in our lives? No. Interested in the lives of those that his followers deem important. Everyone else is dispensable.
B) So your wife and sister in law could pray for him? Because they can change his mind? Because he's flawed?
None of this matters, though. Until you have evidence that he is real, all this means is that you want to believe in a god that fits your needs. I haven't seen evidence. Carry on.
Now if freewill is in play, God cannot continually thwart the bad people from doing their evil deeds otherwise freewill ceases to exist. I have reconciled the fact that this is the way things are. For many it seems terribly unfair. I understand that.
There are limitations on our free will already. Can I levitate objects with my mind? Can I see the infrared spectrum?
Certainly, your god could have designed physical barriers to sin, in which we could have all the will in the world to do something and yet it is not physically possible to do it. This would represent no more a violation of free will than my inability to breathe in space even though my will may be to breathe in space. It is clear your god chose not to do this, and by necessity, it must have been because he intended these things to be possible.