Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 8:57 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism
#10
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism
(January 1, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes. Though it is important to remember that full knowledge and full consent are much deeper and more complex than simply "knowing it's wrong and doing it anyway." It requires a very deliberate turning away from God, which as you said, is something only God himself can know about a person. Just be weary not to give what may be construed as an inaccurate representation of our beliefs.

For what it's worth, I am sorry you've had such a negative experience. From reading your stroy, I suspect you may have suffered from scrupulosity.. which is almost like a type of ocd. We as a church need to do a better job of addressing this problem and trying to help prevent it from happening to our people.

(January 1, 2017 at 6:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(January 1, 2017 at 6:11 pm)Redoubtable Wrote: Well, there are many ways I would respond to this, one being this: the idea of deliberately turning away from God is not some entirely separate disposition or a fourth component of committing mortal sin. The idea that you are turning away from God is done by the very commission of the act itself with full knowledge and deliberate consent. You don't get a "get out of jail free card" by committing a sin that is objectively a grave matter (with full knowledge and deliberate consent) with the added qualifier that you aren't doing it explicitly as a rejection of God but for some other reason. This "very deliberate turning away from God" you speak of is contained in the very act of will to disobey God in an objectively grave matter in the first place.

I can see why you got scrupples, if you think this way.

You are failing to remember that we are human beings and are prone to weakness and bound to fall into temptation. It's in our nature. And God, who created us, knows our nature better than anyone. He isn't some big meeanie waiting for us to slip up so He can "send us to Hell." A person who, in a moment of weakness, indulges in his/her natural yet sinful inclination is more often than not, NOT purposely doing so to spite God. He/she is doing it bc they are human. It's still wrong, of course, but it isn't a deliberate full rejection of God. Succumbing to very strong, natural inclination is not necessarily "full consent of the will" and isn't grounds for damning yourself.



You are talking about all sorts of exceptions, mitigating factors of culpability, etc. while I'm talking about the very root of the issue: the idea that a God who is supposedly just, merciful, good, and loving would set up a system of justice where a single offense (such as the pathetically insignificant things I listed), on a single occasion can cause someone to spend eternity in suffering. I find this purely barbaric, a leftover from the brutality of the ancient world. I want to know what is going on with the Catholic God that he is so concerned about being offended that he is willing to damn people who do something as minuscule as use misuse his name as a curse or miss mass on Sunday. What does it even mean to offend God? How is God harmed? An omnipotent God cannot have his divine existence harmed or threatened, and yet he defends himself with a terror that would even make the tyrannical egomaniacs of history give pause. We depraved and vulnerable sinners harm each other more than we could ever harm God and yet our justice is far more merciful and compassionate.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by vorlon13 - January 1, 2017 at 3:54 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 5:24 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 7:05 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Minimalist - January 1, 2017 at 5:25 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 5:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 7:14 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:02 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:19 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:21 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 8:23 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 8:12 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:24 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:30 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:39 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:41 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 8:51 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by chimp3 - January 1, 2017 at 8:52 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Catholic_Lady - January 1, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 9:56 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 9:34 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Seraphina - January 1, 2017 at 6:54 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 7:05 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Whateverist - January 1, 2017 at 7:00 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 9:57 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 1, 2017 at 10:25 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 10:29 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Aoi Magi - January 1, 2017 at 11:32 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 1, 2017 at 11:38 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 1, 2017 at 11:52 pm
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Astonished - January 2, 2017 at 12:39 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 2, 2017 at 10:24 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Redoubtable - January 2, 2017 at 10:31 am
RE: Escaping Catholic Totalitarianism - by Jehanne - January 2, 2017 at 11:02 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Raised Catholic, it didn't stick Videodrome 31 6843 May 18, 2016 at 8:01 am
Last Post: RozKek
  Liberal Catholic turned atheist Pope Markoff Chaney 5 2193 May 17, 2016 at 10:45 pm
Last Post: dom.donald
  From Catholic Opus Dei to Atheism Anka 15 6683 April 1, 2016 at 4:03 pm
Last Post: pocaracas
  My experience in the catholic church Longhorn 27 6623 June 26, 2015 at 8:23 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Ex Catholic BetaOrionis 14 4705 June 17, 2014 at 6:08 pm
Last Post: laikashuman
  Catholic and Mormon to Atheist moose 5 2630 July 12, 2013 at 8:41 pm
Last Post: moose
  Roman catholic, Atheist, Satanist. Decsel 12 5007 October 6, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Last Post: The Omnissiunt One
  escaping the Mormons IamAwake 28 10861 January 22, 2009 at 4:49 am
Last Post: Kyuuketsuki



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)