(January 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm)Redoubtable Wrote:(January 1, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes. Though it is important to remember that full knowledge and full consent are much deeper and more complex than simply "knowing it's wrong and doing it anyway." It requires a very deliberate turning away from God, which as you said, is something only God himself can know about a person. Just be weary not to give what may be construed as an inaccurate representation of our beliefs.
For what it's worth, I am sorry you've had such a negative experience. From reading your stroy, I suspect you may have suffered from scrupulosity.. which is almost like a type of ocd. We as a church need to do a better job of addressing this problem and trying to help prevent it from happening to our people.
(January 1, 2017 at 6:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can see why you got scrupples, if you think this way.
You are failing to remember that we are human beings and are prone to weakness and bound to fall into temptation. It's in our nature. And God, who created us, knows our nature better than anyone. He isn't some big meeanie waiting for us to slip up so He can "send us to Hell." A person who, in a moment of weakness, indulges in his/her natural yet sinful inclination is more often than not, NOT purposely doing so to spite God. He/she is doing it bc they are human. It's still wrong, of course, but it isn't a deliberate full rejection of God. Succumbing to very strong, natural inclination is not necessarily "full consent of the will" and isn't grounds for damning yourself.
You are talking about all sorts of exceptions, mitigating factors of culpability, etc. while I'm talking about the very root of the issue: the idea that a God who is supposedly just, merciful, good, and loving would set up a system of justice where a single offense (such as the pathetically insignificant things I listed), on a single occasion can cause someone to spend eternity in suffering. I find this purely barbaric, a leftover from the brutality of the ancient world. I want to know what is going on with the Catholic God that he is so concerned about being offended that he is willing to damn people who do something as minuscule as use misuse his name as a curse or miss mass on Sunday. What does it even mean to offend God? How is God harmed? An omnipotent God cannot have his divine existence harmed or threatened, and yet he defends himself with a terror that would even make the tyrannical egomaniacs of history give pause. We depraved and vulnerable sinners harm each other more than we could ever harm God and yet our justice is far more merciful and compassionate.
If that one action was done with a fully deliberate intent on turning away from God with no remorse for doing so, then I don't see why it matters if it happens once or a million times. "Hell" is the state of being of a person who separated themselves from God (or from goodness and love) by their own accord. If a person does not want to be with God, if that person rejects goodness and love, then they don't have to be with God if they don't want to be. That is Hell. It's the ultimate free will.
Also, the way you are talking about God, you don't sound like someone who genuinely doesn't believe he exists. You sound like someone who got so caught up in ocd/scruples, that you feel your only escape is to shut the whole thing off. Sorry if I'm wrong, and correct me if I am. But that's just what it is coming off as to me. It seems very emotional.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
