RE: Allow Me to Introduce Myself
September 19, 2019 at 9:12 pm
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2019 at 9:14 pm by vulcanlogician.)
Hey, man. Welcome to AF. Nice to meet you.
I think the "primacy of existence" has been adequately stated. Plato belabored the point. Spinoza equated it with "God" (ie said that God is no different than it) so his whole philosophy is an argument against the thesis that the two concepts oppose one another. In fact, when you survey the philosophic community (atheists and theists) who really fails to acknowledge the primacy of existence? No one that I can think of. Therefore, Rand's determinations concerning the primacy of existence fail to say anything that has not been said before.
I don't completely discount Rand. I found some of her thinking about language to be insightful. Her political philosophy is derivative (one may even say bastardized). Thinkers like Aristotle and Nietzsche said what she said, only more profoundly and thoroughly than she said it. And they preceded her. Also, I don't like how she presents a dichotomy between the collective and the individual. Is not a collective comprised of individuals? Her political thinking is far from novel. Emerson and Thoreau speak far more adequately on "individualism" than she does. But I'm up for debating her political ideas. She is insightful sometimes, even here.
Even if we are conscious of something, doesn't mean we understand it.
And- "according to the theists"? What theists? Different theists make different claims about God. You can't pigeonhole all theists as having similar views about God's consciousness. But I bet you are leveling your argument against mainstream Christianity. In this instance, I agree with you. For the most part. But even within mainstream Christianity, there are differing views about God's being and consciousness.
I think the "primacy of existence" has been adequately stated. Plato belabored the point. Spinoza equated it with "God" (ie said that God is no different than it) so his whole philosophy is an argument against the thesis that the two concepts oppose one another. In fact, when you survey the philosophic community (atheists and theists) who really fails to acknowledge the primacy of existence? No one that I can think of. Therefore, Rand's determinations concerning the primacy of existence fail to say anything that has not been said before.
I don't completely discount Rand. I found some of her thinking about language to be insightful. Her political philosophy is derivative (one may even say bastardized). Thinkers like Aristotle and Nietzsche said what she said, only more profoundly and thoroughly than she said it. And they preceded her. Also, I don't like how she presents a dichotomy between the collective and the individual. Is not a collective comprised of individuals? Her political thinking is far from novel. Emerson and Thoreau speak far more adequately on "individualism" than she does. But I'm up for debating her political ideas. She is insightful sometimes, even here.
(September 19, 2019 at 4:13 pm)Objectivist Wrote: God is said to be conscious. It is said to have emotions, desires, love, plans, intentions, etc. It is said that it becomes jealous and angry. If a god is conscious, it must be conscious of something. There is a necessary relationship between its objects and its consciousness. What is that relationship according to theists? Which has primacy according to theists, the subject or the objects? According to theists, the objects of God's consciousness conform to its conscious intentions. Things are said to happen according to God's plan. Therefore, the notion of gods, at least the ones of the major religions, affirm the primacy of consciousness.
Even if we are conscious of something, doesn't mean we understand it.
And- "according to the theists"? What theists? Different theists make different claims about God. You can't pigeonhole all theists as having similar views about God's consciousness. But I bet you are leveling your argument against mainstream Christianity. In this instance, I agree with you. For the most part. But even within mainstream Christianity, there are differing views about God's being and consciousness.
