Benevolent Creator God?

[R00tKiT]

Fuck off, Klorophyll.  It's my own experience and it is 100% valid when talking about matters of my beliefs.

I asked about whether you have some good objective (not personal) grounds to say the probability of an afterlife existing is close to 0%, not about your personal beliefs - I already know you don't believe in anything non-empirical.

So what is the mechanism that enables to you to assign probabilities to scenarios like an afterlife.. if any ?

I am under no obligation whatsoever to give the benefit of a doubt to unconvincing non-empirical assertions.  None.  Zero.  "Category mistake" or not, it is ruled out in my worldview.

You actually are. Any assertion you can't rule out is a possible assertion, this is basic common sense that I thought I didn't need to spell out. And I'm sorry to know you allow yourself to commit category mistakes and whatnot to fit your bias towards the empirical world.

I have never made the assumption that gods exist.  That's your problem, not mine.  I am living my life on the assumption that there are no gods and no afterlife and will  not be modifying that position until and unless there is data that meets my evidentiary requirements.  Why should I lower my standards?

Because your standards are built on a logical fallacy, lack of data about X = nonexistence of X. This is completely false, argument from ignorance.

Here again, are either of us pretending that my pointing out the wrong things you still somehow believe to have been right will be useful?

You don't really believe that you could be argued out of your or those beliefs...do you?

Of course I can be argued out of my beliefs. Why else would I be on an atheist forum explaining my reasons to believe..? But so far, all I can see is that you don't acknowledge the simple fact that holy books do contain correct stuff. In the case of the Qur'an, I am prepared to say it contains correct+possibly unfalsifiable stuff, is it some trick of the prophet to make sure he will always be right? Probably not, unfalsifiable doesn't imply false, after all.

Would it be a problem if some person argued from incredulity, would you object to that?  My answer was demonstrably -not- that we argue from incredulity, as my entire post stands testament to.  That's what you argued.  That's the only thing, apparently, that you can imagine - or at least you declared that it must be so - in point of fact.  That's all that you allow in reality.  Is that a problem?  I don't think that big mo got anything accidentally right, with or without the help of djinn.  Its not that I can't believe he got so much right - that it's miraculous (that's you, again - I'm not the one who believes that the book is magic...remember?) - It's that I know he got so much wrong, and why.

That's basic information asymmetry between a cultist like yourself, and me. A different position to the one you described as the only position "under atheism".  

Do you understand?  Not, do you agree.  Do...you...understand...?

Sure, I understand that you think the Qur'an is filled with errors, but here, I am trying to focus on one specific example: the pharaoh's claim of divinity. The Qur'an clearly agrees with the Bible about the pharaoh's story, but then makes the imprudent move of mentioning details that could be falsified. If, for example, it turned out (after we decipherd the hieroglyphs) the egyptian pharaoh worshipped some super pharaoh or some deity -a completely plausible scenario, that would clearly invalidate some Qur'anic verses wouldn't it?

Why would Muhammad mention details that might turn out to be wrong later? If I were a prudent prophet who is trying to cover his lie, I would make unfalsifiable statements of ancient figures like the pharaoh, but that's not what we have.

And back to the assumption of God existing, I really would like to know where exactly I am wrong in this reasoning : a just God certainly won't leave humanity astray/without guidance => there has to be guidance => the Qur'an is a good candidate for this guidance.

Do you think a just God can logically leave humanity without any guidance ? that a God doesn't have to be just ..? or simply there are other candidates than the Qur'an ??