The Origin of the Universe

[Tiberius]

some DESIGNS just can't be unraveled in a few hundred human lifetimes, be it peeking through keyholes or watching ameobas washing their behinds under microscopes!

1. Show me an example of a design that cannot be explained.
2. Science is an ongoing process, but given that in only the last 300 years we have accelerated our accumulation of knowledge, I think that given "a few hundred human lifetimes" we will be able to know a heck of a lot more.
3. If you want to have a conversation about science, then leave out the jokes.

[WebChris]

Ah - this site is alive, I see. I met a few dead ones before. This forum doesn't seem as gripey as the others were... Well done. That was just a teaser to see what I'd catch in my screen.
But anyway, let's play with the "FAITH" toy for moment. ~~
An atheist will typically say, "Why should I be concerned about something I don't have evidence for?"
Hebrews 11:1 reads - "Now faith is the substance... and evidence of things not seen."
>A felled power line< "Don't touch it! Don't go near it!" Why? We choose to be "extra aware." What is this extra awareness? Do we have the evidence of danger or just the words of warning?
Even mere invisible word of mouth about law and punishment will discourage a certain behavior of people. Strange how invisible things can demand our respect. Faith, be it in God or anything else is not so different nor as strange as people choose to think. We all don't call it the same thing, but we all use it all the time. We all don't apply it the same way, but we all do apply it. Now then - what is your definition of "faith" or no "faith?" What are your views?
>Btw - nihilism is a cop out. Don’t go there.<
My next challenge: If the formation of life were indeed as accidental as non-creationists suggest; >example: the Big Bang - then, how do you account for the assembly of the simplest living thing from chaotic matter and energy? From my point of view; be it billions or even millions of years,
like a plasmic tornado passing a billion times through a parts warehouse, won’t just cook-up a form of functioning machinery. Or no matter how many times you frappe a strawberry in a blender, you won’t get another terrestrial fruit. If subatomic particles have their place, then from where did they begin? What are your views?

[Kyuuketsuki]

My next challenge: If the formation of life were indeed as accidental as non-creationists suggest; >example: the Big Bang - then, how do you account for the assembly of the simplest living thing from chaotic matter and energy? From my point of view; be it billions or even millions of years,
like a plasmic tornado passing a billion times through a parts warehouse, won’t just cook-up a form of functioning machinery. Or no matter how many times you frappe a strawberry in a blender, you won’t get another terrestrial fruit. If subatomic particles have their place, then from where did they begin? What are your views?

NO FUCKING WAY!

You have had a number of pretty bloody good answers and you have not dealt with them so you don't get to do that ... you discuss this so called challenge (and the answers you've had so far) at hand BEFORE you try to move on.

Kyu

[Giff]

Science is not trying to create an answer like religion it tries to find answer.

Awesome quote here Giff I think. Perhaps even worthy of a sig?

EvF

If you want to, or do you mean I should have it as a signature?

However I changed it to "to find an answer" I think that's a more correct english. If that's more correct?

[WebChris]

Hmmm. An all American response? Not very intelligent though.
But haven't you noticed? - My point-of-view has not changed. And I never posed a question. I only submitted a discussion! Some people hate phases. I undertand that. I don't like a stacked package quiz either. Now I'm asking questions. >Feel free to ask me questions.< What are your views to these?
Forgive me if I have to chop, chop, chop, chop and serve; to see you propose something the least bit scientifically informative. >Notice that I've used more science terms than any one of all of your posts!< Let's talk relativity or at least a hairy, missing link cousin or the amoeba that became an astronaut! Are there nothing but z-particle lepton ninny stuffers in here? Come-on - let's play!

[Giff]

Hmmm. An all American response?

I'm not american

[leo-rcc]

Hmmm. An all American response? Not very intelligent though.
But haven't you noticed? - My point-of-view has not changed. And I never posed a question. I only submitted a discussion! Some people hate phases. I undertand that. I don't like a stacked package quiz either. Now I'm asking questions. >Feel free to ask me questions.< What are your views to these?
Forgive me if I have to chop, chop, chop, chop and serve; to see you propose something the least bit scientifically informative. >Notice that I've used more science terms than any one of all of your posts!< Let's talk relativity or at least a hairy, missing link cousin or the amoeba that became an astronaut! Are there nothing but z-particle lepton ninny stuffers in here? Come-on - let's play!

As Kyu already stated, you have not adressed the answers and try to move on from there, that is a no no. Address the points made to you.

[Tiberius]

An atheist will typically say, "Why should I be concerned about something I don't have evidence for?"
Hebrews 11:1 reads - "Now faith is the substance... and evidence of things not seen."

Quoting something from a book isn't an argument. The Koran says some interesting stuff too...

>A felled power line< "Don't touch it! Don't go near it!" Why? We choose to be "extra aware." What is this extra awareness? Do we have the evidence of danger or just the words of warning?

Well I can only speak for me, but as a child I was taught about the dangers of electricity. At school we were shown videos of children (actors) playing near pylons and getting electrocuted. In physics we learned why these things were dangerous. All through my life I've had "extra-awareness" because of the evidence presented to me, because I understand how it works, and because I don't have a death wish.

Even mere invisible word of mouth about law and punishment will discourage a certain behavior of people. Strange how invisible things can demand our respect.

Usually the law has a reason behind it. If someone were to shout at me "Don't go into that building!" or even "Don't go into that building, you'll die", I would ask "why?". Once an explanation has been given I would probably not go in, but even if the person refused to give one, I would probably not risk it either. As I said before, I don't have a death wish. I might ask someone else about the mental state of the person, or try to get confirmation of their warning.

Now then - what is your definition of "faith" or no "faith?" What are your views?

Faith - accepting something as true without proper evidence.

>Btw - nihilism is a cop out. Don’t go there.<

We weren't, although Charles the Christian (another forum member) seems to think all atheists are.

My next challenge: If the formation of life were indeed as accidental as non-creationists suggest; >example: the Big Bang - then, how do you account for the assembly of the simplest living thing from chaotic matter and energy? From my point of view; be it billions or even millions of years,
like a plasmic tornado passing a billion times through a parts warehouse, won’t just cook-up a form of functioning machinery. Or no matter how many times you frappe a strawberry in a blender, you won’t get another terrestrial fruit. If subatomic particles have their place, then from where did they begin? What are your views?

Life isn't complex, all we are are bunches of self replicating molecules. The first "organism" was simply an arrangement of self replicating molecules that joined together. Given the number of chemical reactions that went on for billions of years, it is a simple matter of probability that the right molecules bound together. Once that happened, natural selection took place when they replicated, causing mutations, and evolution.

Your "plasmic tornado" analogy holds no merit. It doesn't accurately describe the conditions of the Earth at the time, nor the mechanisms in place that allowed for life to flourish.

[lilphil1989]

like a plasmic tornado passing a billion times through a parts warehouse, won’t just cook-up a form of functioning machinery. Or no matter how many times you frappe a strawberry in a blender, you won’t get another terrestrial fruit. If subatomic particles have their place, then from where did they begin? What are your views?

Well, at the temperature required for a plasma to exist, the machine parts would also exist as a plasma (or at least in the gaseous state) so I doubt there is much chance of assembling your machine...

Your analogy is a bad one. Like I said in my previous response, which you totally ignored you assume that out of the many possible states of the universe (in a statistical mechanics sense) only one could possibly lead to life forming.

If subatomic particles have their place, then from where did they begin? What are your views?

We don't know. But to say that this even suggests that the christian god must have done it is beyond ridiculous.
How do you make the step from "I don't know how something happened" to "the very specific man in the sky that i happen to believe in must have done it" ?


Oh, and just a little tip:
If you want to debate with people, respond to their points instead of ignoring them and changing the subject. That's a sure-fire way to make everyone stop responding to you.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Hmmm. An all American response? Not very intelligent though.

I am not an American and neither is attempting to move the discussion on BEFORE you have answered your critics.

But haven't you noticed? - My point-of-view has not changed. And I never posed a question. I only submitted a discussion! Some people hate phases. I undertand that. I don't like a stacked package quiz either. Now I'm asking questions. >Feel free to ask me questions.< What are your views to these?
Forgive me if I have to chop, chop, chop, chop and serve; to see you propose something the least bit scientifically informative. >Notice that I've used more science terms than any one of all of your posts!< Let's talk relativity or at least a hairy, missing link cousin or the amoeba that became an astronaut! Are there nothing but z-particle lepton ninny stuffers in here? Come-on - let's play!

TBH I don't care ... you said, "My Next Challenge" therefore you were moving on, unjustifiably so! So no, let's not, let's have you deal properly with those who have responded to you (including me) because this is a DISCUSSION forum, not a "LET ME SET ONE CHALLENGE AFTER ANOTHER AND IGNORE ALL THE ANSWERS I GET" forum.

Kyu