So - an atheist forum eh?
Sounds like a club for after college and after market intellectuals. But anyway - here goes:
Are we still the biochemical descendant "accidents" of the universe belching the next scientist's limited point-of-view? Not everything is a convenient accident! Especially at the chemical and subatomic level! The earth is such a beautiful accident: kind of like - the view of mankind assuming that a few novel inventions has equipped him with the ability to know and test everything - is as dangerous as a two-year-old exploring his home with a ball-peen hammer! From microwaves to atomic bombs, I'm sure you are very confident in the scientific community (or atheist community for that matter)! Can we admit for once, that no matter how many science books we read - that there are things - we know nothing about -! or we just don’t have enough facts to make the theoretical oatmeal stick! - some DESIGNS just can't be unraveled in a few hundred human lifetimes, be it peeking through keyholes or watching ameobas washing their behinds under microscopes!
If anyone wants to give an answer to this - step up!

If what you are saying is that science doesn't know everything then, yes, you are quite correct.

However, just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean that it knows nothing. It knows enough to keep you warm on a winters night, to allow to communicate to other all over the world by tapping on a keyboard and many other things that could not even have been dreamt of thousands of years ago.

The Cosmos is a strange and wondrous thing and I'm sure that science will always be asking questions of it, and yes, I'm sure that there are things that we will never know about.

But given the choice I would always turn to science as the bedrock of discovery rather than ancient stories written down thousands of years ago by goat herders who simply knew no better.

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: So - an atheist forum eh?
Sounds like a club for after college and after market intellectuals. But anyway - here goes:
Are we still the biochemical descendant "accidents" of the universe belching the next scientist's limited point-of-view? Not everything is a convenient accident! Especially at the chemical and subatomic level! The earth is such a beautiful accident: kind of like - the view of mankind assuming that a few novel inventions has equipped him with the ability to know and test everything - is as dangerous as a two-year-old exploring his home with a ball-peen hammer! From microwaves to atomic bombs, I'm sure you are very confident in the scientific community (or atheist community for that matter)! Can we admit for once, that no matter how many science books we read - that there are things - we know nothing about -! or we just don’t have enough facts to make the theoretical oatmeal stick! - some DESIGNS just can't be unraveled in a few hundred human lifetimes, be it peeking through keyholes or watching ameobas washing their behinds under microscopes!
If anyone wants to give an answer to this - step up!

Science isn't claiming to absolutely know these answers at present ... though I strongly suspect they know a lot more than your think they do but you're going to have to ask more specific questions that that rather than this generalised rubbish which seems to equate to a, "the universe is more complicated than *chance* can explain (so obviously there my personal choice of designer musta dun it)" style question.

Science is an ongoing and self-correcting attempt to explain the observable universe around us and as such there is no specific expectation that science will have all the answers just because some fool snaps his fingers and says, "Ah but you don't know this!". But what's more important than that is that that lack of specific knowledge in no way shape or form benefits your hokey god claims ... your cartoon caricature designer will remain exactly that until such time as YOU (or your representatives) provide the required evidence for its existence.

Tell you what, I'll consider the question more than an open (unanswered) one when you supply evidence (hard, specific evidence) for the supposed designer ... fair enough?

Until then can I suggest you go and learn the first thing about science because it's quite evident to me you've yet to study it.

Kyu

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: So - an atheist forum eh?
Sounds like a club for after college and after market intellectuals. But anyway - here goes:
Are we still the biochemical descendant "accidents" of the universe belching the next scientist's limited point-of-view? Not everything is a convenient accident! Especially at the chemical and subatomic level! The earth is such a beautiful accident: kind of like - the view of mankind assuming that a few novel inventions has equipped him with the ability to know and test everything - is as dangerous as a two-year-old exploring his home with a ball-peen hammer! From microwaves to atomic bombs, I'm sure you are very confident in the scientific community (or atheist community for that matter)! Can we admit for once, that no matter how many science books we read - that there are things - we know nothing about -! or we just don’t have enough facts to make the theoretical oatmeal stick! - some DESIGNS just can't be unraveled in a few hundred human lifetimes, be it peeking through keyholes or watching ameobas washing their behinds under microscopes!
If anyone wants to give an answer to this - step up!

Was there actually a question in this text?

WebChris...you are right...there are some things we don't know! ( science doesn't claim to know everything anyway) And we certainly don't know of any evidence of God.

And neither do you or your fellow christians or anyone else for that matter! No one knows of any evidence. So talk about not knowing...there you go. No logical reason to believe.

Anyway, welcome to the forums.

EvF

You are right on there EVS.

Science is always renewing itself and try to find new answers.Some things is allready solved, some things are nearly solved, some things are quite unknown (like black matter) and some are just simply not yet discovered.

Science is not trying to create an answer like religion it tries to find an answer.

Well, all of the above.

(May 5, 2009 at 11:02 am)Giff Wrote: Science is not trying to create an answer like religion it tries to find answer.

Awesome quote here Giff I think. Perhaps even worthy of a sig?

EvF

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: So - an atheist forum eh?
Sounds like a club for after college and after market intellectuals. But anyway - here goes:
Are we still the biochemical descendant "accidents" of the universe belching the next scientist's limited point-of-view?

If by "accident" you mean humanity was not planned, then yes. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that any kind of higher being planned for humanity to exist, and in the absence of such evidence it is ridiculous to assume that any did.

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: Not everything is a convenient accident! Especially at the chemical and subatomic level! The earth is such a beautiful accident:

By this I assume you are referring to apparent fine-tuning of physical constants to accomodate life.
However, you fail to consider that life or intelligence could possibly exist in a vastly different universe, assuming that this set-up is the only one that could possibly lead to the evolution of life.
There are actually many inconvenient accidents, for example, in the human eye, the blood vessels run in front of the retina, causing small blind spots that your brain has to "cover-up" with information from the surrounding areas.
If your god designed this, he's an idiot.

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: From microwaves to atomic bombs, I'm sure you are very confident in the scientific community (or atheist community for that matter)!

Oh right, i must have missed the part in the bible where mr jeezus describes how to sustain a uranium chain reaction...


Science gathers evidence and comes to conclusions based on that evidence.
Religion knows it's conclusion and flounders around looking for evidence that might be interpreted as supporting it's conclusion. Shame it has so much trouble finding any

(May 5, 2009 at 1:13 am)WebChris Wrote: Can we admit for once, that no matter how many science books we read - that there are things - we know nothing about -! or we just don’t have enough facts to make the theoretical oatmeal stick! - some DESIGNS just can't be unraveled in a few hundred human lifetimes, be it peeking through keyholes or watching ameobas washing their behinds under microscopes!
If anyone wants to give an answer to this - step up!

Of course, that we don't know everything is what makes science so interesting and fun!

Quote:And the Lord God spake unto them, saying, "A Great Fire be bound within all things, and know ye that be it unleashed, its energy shall be as like its mass, multiplied by the swiftness of the light, and so multiplied again." And they were much amazed. --II Physicists, Chapter IV, verses 5-8.

Classic.