Namasté

[Abracadabra]

Greetings Earthlings,

I thought I'd join this forum to see what "atheists" chat about. I don't actually consider myself to be an "atheist", but according to this forum I may very well qualify as a "Gnostic Atheist", or a "Strong Atheist" contrary to an "Agnostic Atheist", or "Weak Atheist".

These terms have always been controversial for me, and I'm not sure if agree with how they are used in this forum according to the thread "Important Information for Theists". I read that page and decided that "Gnostic Atheist" best describes me. Ironically, that leaves room open for spiritual beliefs evidently.

I definitely have spiritual "beliefs" for sure, but I don't want to go into that here. Having said that I've been a scientist all my life and I'm well-versed in all the sciences, specifically in physics. I have no doubt that the world is 4.5 billion years old and life evolved from simple molecules.

I was born and raised into Christianity. The religion wasn't really half-bad as taught by my local church and family. The problems I really had with the religion was with hard-core fundamentalists who used Jesus as a hate-tool. They finally turned me against the religion altogether. Although I must confess that I had serious problems with the religion in any case. A God who condemns a serpent to crawl on his belly and eat dirt for the rest of his days? That's not a nice thing to do to anyone. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Why would I think that an all-merciful benevolent God would be so ignorant to so such a nasty thing?

And then of course the very idea of Jesus being the "sacrificial lamb" to "pay" for the sins of mankind is just as absurd, if not even more so.

After much study into the Bible and related cultures I finally came to the intellectual conclusion that there probably was a man who called the pharisees hypocrites, renounced the ignorant teachings of the torah, and was crucified for his views. And that gave rise to the rumors of a man named "Jesus". I personally believe that the man who gave rise to those rumors was most likely a Jewish pantheist who was also well-versed in Mahayana Buddhism. So, in that sense, I "believe" in Jesus. Not as a God, but as a human just like the rest of us.

As far as I'm concerned Christianity has become the anti-thesis of Jesus.

Of course, I deny all of the Abrahamic Religions. I don't believe that any all-wise God could be as ignorant and stupid as the Abrahamic religions require, and I can't imagine any all-wise, all-powerful God purposefully devising a plan to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for the sins of man.

I make no apologies to anyone who might find "offense" in my language above. The bottom line for me is that the Abrahamic religions don't have any more credibility than Greek Mythology. They are extremely ignorant, male-chauvinistic, religiously-bigoted, and just downright stupid.

I just got kicked off another religious site for making that observation.

I still believe in a spiritual essence of reality though. More for scientific reasons than anything else. I wasn't aware that an atheist could believe in a spiritual essence of reality. But evidently we can. And ironically that's even labeled a "Strong Atheist". How weird is that?

So I guess as long as that's true, then I qualify as an "Strong Atheist".

So hello to all my fellow atheists out there.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Hello, and it depends how you define spiritual.

[passionatefool]

welcome. I would love to hear more elaboration on what you would consider "spiritual essence" of reality.

Hope you enjoy your stay and share your knowledge of physics. I'm a sucker for physics but just never seem to understand it lol.

[Epimethean]

Why the namaste, by the way?

But welcome.

[Abracadabra]

Hello, and it depends how you define spiritual.

Oh absolutely. This is true of all our "words". Words are just labels used to convey concepts. Therefore a well-understood "definition" is paramount to facilitating that communication. Without a well-understood definition no communication can be achieved.

I confess that I use the term "spiritual" loosely. However, I can offer a deep scientific definition for the term (as I am using it). To make that brief allow me to simply say that a "spiritual" existence is simply any existence which goes beyond our scientific description of "physics".

In other words, a "spiritual" existence is simply a "non-physical" existence in terms of our modern understanding of what we mean by "physical".

Ironically our modern sciences have already established the existence of a "spiritual world" (by this definition).

Quantum Mechanics requires that information exists in a form that is beyond are ability to directly detect in any "physical" way. In fact, our best theory of the Big Bang (i.e. Inflation Theory) requires that the "laws" of Quantum Physics preexisted that Big Bang. The theory is entirely based on the assumption of those preexisting laws.

Well, those "laws" are necessarily "information". Therefore our most current modern scientific theories basically require that "information" preexists the physical world. Therefore, it's actually a modern scientific premise that a "spiritual world" must necessarily exist. (based on how I'm defining a spiritual world - i.e. a world that exists beyond the physical world that we commonly call "reality".)

So within the context of everything we currently know this definition works and this concept has been scientifically deduced to necessarily exist. Without it Quantum Mechanics would have no basis.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

[Autumnlicious]

Welcome.

[Loading Please Wait]

Hi.

Welcome fellow scientist

Btw, I'm not a "real" scientist, I just pretend I am

[Abracadabra]

welcome. I would love to hear more elaboration on what you would consider "spiritual essence" of reality.

Hope you enjoy your stay and share your knowledge of physics. I'm a sucker for physics but just never seem to understand it lol.

Well, truth be known, even the best physicists in the world don't understand physics. They may understand the theories and the mathematics, but ask them if the mathematics makes any intuitive sense and they'll quickly confess that it does not.

Of course, this doesn't apply to mundane Newtonian Physics. But I'm addressing Modern Physics and our deeper investigation into the nature of reality. There is much that is unknown. In fact, those who believe that science has a really good grasp on "reality" are the ones who need to take a deeper look at what is truly known, and not known.

So if you don't understand physics you've got a lot of company. Include Nobel Prize winners of Physics awards.

Here's what out best Quantum Physicist had to say about Quantum Mechanics.

"Do not keep saying to yourself, if you can possibly avoid it, 'but how can it by like that? Nobody knows how it can be like that." - Richard Feynman

And it's true. Nobody truly "understand" physics even today. You can understand the mathematics and the theories intellectually. But no one has yet been able to make any sense of them in terms of real understanding.

It's a mystery.

In other words, thus far Science = Mysticism when it comes to the core of understanding reality. The scientists aren't any closer to knowing truth than the Eastern Mystics were. In fact, the scientists have only shown that there does indeed exist a way for the Mystics to be right.

[Epimethean]

Oh boy ...

[Abracadabra]

Why the namaste, by the way?

But welcome.

Namaste is a greeting of your cosmic consciousness.

It's just a tradition I picked up from having studied Eastern Mystical cultures.

It basically means that I greet and honor the true essence of your primordial being.

Besides, it looks more interesting than just "hello".