Hello atheistforum

[Bgood]

I can sympathize with believers in looking for human goodness, meaning or a sublime experience in life, but the problem is that it is NOT going to be found in a church group. Why do we need God and Jesus to have a conscience? Can't moral responsibility and general kindness and love be a natural human trait that is biologically programmed within us? A monotheistic God is a model for totalitarian dictatorship. It is a grand conspiracy against mankind. The Bible justifies every evil in the name of self righteousness. Christianity is spiritual fraud. It detaches us from our own self worth. God is dead. The devil actually makes more sense to worship because he is not as evil. Jesus is completely mythological and fabricated through various pagan cultures. Wake up! If you want "spirituality", go for a walk in the woods and enjoy Nature.

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I'm not spiritual.

That's fine, but you are still human! Spiritual is a vague word anyway. Maybe peacefulness or nonworry would be a better term to describe that state of mind.

[Undeceived]

The moral law we all know in our consciences. It's why we feel guilt when we do something bad (unless we've done it so much we've grown numb) and why people have integrity (doing the right thing even when no one's watching). Jesus summed it up as "Love God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself." When we do neither, that is, when we serve ourselves over Him and others, that is when we break the law.

Explain why different cultures have different morals and then change your screenname to deluded.

They don't have different morals. They have different laws. Stealing and murder is still considered wrong. Adultery may not be outlawed, but it still tears apart marriages and both members feel guilty afterward. Everyone knows what 'feels' wrong, but that doesn't always stop them from doing it anyway. We have a spiritual nature (moral) and a sinful nature (selfishness). We listen to one or we listen to the other. We know both very well.

[Mister Agenda]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

You're very welcome.

I was not trying to outdo you; your last reply to me was quite lengthy, and I was just trying to answer everything you asked of me.

Fair enough. It's easy for the walls of text to grow quite large when both sides are attempting complete answers. Feel free to summarize or be a lumper instead of a splitter; or focus on what you think your strongest areas are.

We are simultaneously speaking about many different subjects, some which are quite deep.

I agree, there could be separate threads for some of these.

I too must budget my time so I will answer all of this in the next couple of days. I have enjoyed our discussion and I appreciate the effort you have put into it.

That's a relief, sometimes I've had to walk away when these things get out of hand, but if we're both on a time budget maybe we can keep it manageable.

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Actually, looking back on your reply, I think you need a radiometric dating thread, an abiogenesis thread, and an intelligent design/irreducible complexity thread in the science subforums. That should be enough to keep anyone busy.

Since you are interested in the technical details of radiometric dating, that's a discussion you might want to take here:

http://scienceforums.com/