Psalm 137:9

[Redbeard The Pink]

Moohahaha I mean yes productive!

 

*snickers..
...and what does an ot Jew under the whip of a philistine care or know about the future teachings of Jesus?

God as per the arable of the talents and how he has handeled everyone in the O and NT only holds you responsible for what you know to be right and or wrong.

Oh no, enslaving Hebrews isn't allowed unless you're also a Hebrew and they're in debt, and you're not allowed to keep the men longer than 7 years unless you ensnare them by letting them start a family they're not allowed to take along when they go free. Foreigners, on the other hand, may be taken as slaves and treated as property (bought, sold, bequeathed to children, etc.).

The OT does, however, say that you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die right away or lose eyes or teeth. How compassionate. What a loving gwawd.

Oh, and then there's the NT admonition for slaves to obey even cruel masters as one would obey Christ. Neat

Well riddle me this first... if a psalm is just a song or hymn what does it matter what it says to a NT christian if said Christian can see a level of wrong that an OT jew could not?

Is this or isn't this the word of your god, Drich?

So does modern society... or can you show me a society that is not build and currently maintain by a slave labor force?

Wait...so are you saying slavery isn't wrong? Am I hearing that correctly? I mean sure, slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation are still extant problems despite the fact that they're almost universally reviled by the average member of the public, but, like...we still agree those things are immoral, right?

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='1614727' dateline='1504632124']
...and what does an ot Jew under the whip of a philistine care or know about the future teachings of Jesus?

God as per the parable of the talents and how he has handled everyone in the O and NT only holds you responsible for what you know to be right and or wrong.

Oh no, enslaving Hebrews isn't allowed unless you're also a Hebrew and they're in debt, and you're not allowed to keep the men longer than 7 years unless you ensnare them by letting them start a family they're not allowed to take along when they go free. Foreigners, on the other hand, may be taken as slaves and treated as property (bought, sold, bequeathed to children, etc.).

What I am saying when the paslm in question was written the whole nation of Israel was conquered and taken by the philistines I believe and Everyone of sound body who was a jew were gather up and marched back to philistine and sold into slavery. This happened several times in the OT by different people. This song/psalm was written about the captors and their evil children.

The OT does, however, say that you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die right away or lose eyes or teeth. How compassionate. What a loving gwawd.

indeed. How else to punish someone who is already in the middle of the greatest punishment a soceity like that already has? After all all non God center soceity did not have any rules on slavery.

Oh, and then there's the NT admonition for slaves to obey even cruel masters as one would obey Christ. Neat[/color]

Indeed. Sound advise even if you apply it to the modern word of employer/employee after all the slaves like modern day employers you referenced in the OT compensated their slaves/employees.

So again not all slaves are human chattle. Slave is a much broader word that has lost most all of it's meaning in the modern vanicular. Today it only means a beaten broken black man picking cotton in a white man's field. While the word use to mean anything from chattle slavery to contract employment meaning instead of money I work for you, you give me land to work house to live in food for me and my family and protection from evil people and I give you work in that field and a precentage of everything it produces. Or slavery in the case of Joseph meant everything from chattle slavery to being the second in command of all of egypt.

That is one thing you douche bags forget about the word slavery as the bible uses it. it was the rewards the slaves were entitled to, because again you lemmings have been programed to only think black man in a cotton field being beaten by a white man. While that is apart of History, one can not deny that there is no soceity today outside of mud huts that was not built and currently maintained on the backs of slaves. (OT version not yours)

Well riddle me this first... if a psalm is just a song or hymn what does it matter what it says to a NT christian if said Christian can see a level of wrong that an OT jew could not?

Is this or isn't this the word of your god, Drich?

How about common knowledge from the Jews Christians and anyone not activly looking for reasons to blindly feel justified in hating God. How else do we know Psalms is not a book of commands? Because the word itself defines it to be a book of song and not a book of law.

So does modern society... or can you show me a society that is not build and currently maintain by a slave labor force?

Wait...so are you saying slavery isn't wrong?

What I asked you was to show me ONE example of a soceity not built on or completely dependent on slavery You said there were several.. So I am asking you to provide one. just one.

Am I hearing that correctly? I mean sure, slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation are still extant problems despite the fact that they're almost universally reviled by the average member of the public, but, like...we still agree those things are immoral, right?[/color]

not just a problem sport.. our entire societal foundation. without slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation the world as you know it would be at an end.

Not saying this is a good thing I am pointing it out so people like you can't pretend that your money your life style does not support what you seem to be above.

[Angrboda]

I mean...maybe not for the Jews, but in general...yeah...the Bible pretty handily supports slavery.

So does modern society... or can you show me a society that is not build and currently maintain by a slave labor force?

What's your point here, Drich, that your upbringing was so morally deficient that you don't realize that two wrongs don't make a right? Christians will go to any lengths to excuse the implicit condonement of slavery in the bible. Your red herrings do nothing to evade the larger point, which is that if the bible clearly condones a moral evil, then it is obviously not the product of a perfectly moral being. The claim that the bible is from God is a sham, and its stance on slavery shows that. All your tap dancing and mealy mouthed verbal gymnastics cannot evade this point. You worship a book that is based on the thoughts of men. It is not of the divine. You've simply elevated it to that status through mere belief. There is no evidence that the bible is from God, and there is good evidence that it isn't.

[Astreja]

...without slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation the world as you know it would be at an end.

I'm not overly attached to "the world as [I] know it."  I'm quite willing to try it without slavery, human trafficking, labour exploitatation, and various other "evils with tenure."

[Minimalist]

That is one thing you douche bags forget about the word slavery as the bible uses it. it was the rewards the slaves were entitled to, because again you lemmings have been programed to only think black man in a cotton field being beaten by a white man.

I should no longer be surprised when you say something totally idiotic Dripshit.  And I'm not.  It is par for the course with you.

I'd love to have your sorry ass on the other end of the whip and then hear you talk about how fucking wonderful slaves had it.

You moron.

[Simon Moon]

So again not all slaves are human chattle. Slave is a much broader word that has lost most all of it's meaning in the modern vanicular. Today it only means a beaten broken black man picking cotton in a white man's field. While the word use to mean anything from chattle slavery to contract employment meaning instead of money I work for you, you give me land to work house to live in food for me and my family and protection from evil people and I give you work in that field and a precentage of everything it produces. Or slavery in the case of Joseph meant everything from chattle slavery to being the second in command of all of egypt.

That is one thing you douche bags forget about the word slavery as the bible uses it. it was the rewards the slaves were entitled to, because again you lemmings have been programed to only think black man in a cotton field being beaten by a white man. While that is apart of History, one can not deny that there is no soceity today outside of mud huts that was not built and currently maintained on the backs of slaves. (OT version not yours)

So, you immoral piece of sh_t, tell me, would you allow yourself to be held in the type of slavery described in the OT for non Hebrew slaves, being it is such a 'warm and fuzzy' type of slavery?


You know, a form of slavery that allows you to be passed down to your master's children as property, or get beaten as long as you don't die within a few days?

[Angrboda]

So again not all slaves are human chattle. Slave is a much broader word that has lost most all of it's meaning in the modern vanicular. Today it only means a beaten broken black man picking cotton in a white man's field. While the word use to mean anything from chattle slavery to contract employment meaning instead of money I work for you, you give me land to work house to live in food for me and my family and protection from evil people and I give you work in that field and a precentage of everything it produces. Or slavery in the case of Joseph meant everything from chattle slavery to being the second in command of all of egypt.

That is one thing you douche bags forget about the word slavery as the bible uses it. it was the rewards the slaves were entitled to, because again you lemmings have been programed to only think black man in a cotton field being beaten by a white man. While that is apart of History, one can not deny that there is no soceity today outside of mud huts that was not built and currently maintained on the backs of slaves. (OT version not yours)

Your attempts to minimize and explain away the problem of slavery in the ancient near east are transparent and immoral. It's nothing more than you drinking your own koolaid. Yes, slavery covered a range of possibilities, yet it was still an evil in and of itself, visited by the same excesses which the African slave trade visited upon us. You do everything but say that slavery was a zippity doo-dah pleasant way to live one's life. It wasn't. Slaves lived second class lives and people resorted to such measures out of desperation or worse. Your attempts to muddy the waters with bullshit red herrings is disgusting.

2. Treatment

While, legally, the slave was a mere chattle, classed with movable property, both law and society were forced to take into consideration the constantly self-asserting humanity of the slave. We thus have the highly contradictory situation in which on the one hand, the slave was considered as possessing the qualities of a human being while on the other hand, he was recognized as being void of the same and regarded as a mere "thing." The slave's status as a chattle, deprived of any human rights, was clearly and unmistakably emphasized in his relation to a third party. If injured, maimed, or killed by a third party, his owner was compensated for the loss, not the slave. The Biblical legislation mentions only the case of a slave who was killed by a goring ox and provides that the owner shall be compensated for his loss (Ex. 21:32).

In the relation between the slave and his master almost everything depended upon the character of the latter. The slave's fate was in fact in his master's hand. Beatings and maltreatment of slaves seem to have been so common that the great reformer Gudea, ensi of Lagash, prided himself in the fact that during his reign a slave who was guilty of misconduct was not hit on his head by his master, and that a maid who had done a great wrong was not struck on her face by her mistress. The Biblical legislation does not prohibit the maltreatment of a Hebrew slave by his master "for he is his money." It is only when the slave dies immediately (within three days) as a result of the beating that the master becomes liable to punishment (Ex. 21:20-21). In Ancient Babylonia a runaway slave was put in chains and had the words "A runaway, seize!" incised upon his face. The Hammurabi Code decrees the death penalty for those who entice a slave to flee from his master and also for those who harbor a fugitive slave. Furthermore, a reward of two shekels is promised to anyone who captures a fugitive slave and brings him back to his master.

"Slavery In The Ancient Near East" I. Mendelsohn.

Your attempt to plaster over the reality of slavery in the ancient world is nothing but bullshit Christian propaganda aiming to whitewash history. You are full of crap and an immoral son of a bitch for propagating these lies. And, as noted, deprived of your smoke screen, slavery, even in the ancient Hebrew world, was an evil that was condoned by your so-called "holy" book. The meaning of "holy" is that it is set apart. But the slavery in the ancient near east is only set apart in its ordinariness as a morally repugnant practice.

You can post all the bullshit propaganda and red herrings you like, it won't change the truth. Your "holy" book isn't holy, nor the product of divine influence. You've simply raised an ancient political and moral treatise to the status of infallible guide. That's your failing. You worship a book that is not of any god as if it were. You've abdicated your responsibility as a moral being to assert your own truths as your own, instead abdicating that responsibility to a bunch of decrepit cookie cutter bullshit. You worship the bible. God, if he exists, gets lost in your insipid adoration of that book.

[Simon Moon]

Your attempts to minimize and explain away the problem of slavery in the ancient near east are transparent and immoral.  It's nothing more than you drinking your own koolaid.  Yes, slavery covered a range of possibilities, yet it was still an evil in and of itself, visited by the same excesses which the African slave trade visited upon us.  You do everything but say that slavery was a zippity doo-dah pleasant way to live one's life.  It wasn't.  Slaves lived second class lives and people resorted to such measures out of desperation or worse.  Your attempts to muddy the waters with bullshit red herrings is disgusting.  

A perfect example of how deference to the Bible and Christianity can cause someone to lose their moral compass, yet make them believe they are the ones being moral.

This is exactly why I spend time debating against that immoral belief system.

"Why not just let people believe what they want?", I hear often. Sorry, but people's beliefs don't live in a vaccum, they inform their actions. And making excuses for slavery is just one example of an immoral person believing they are moral.

[Astonished]

Your attempts to minimize and explain away the problem of slavery in the ancient near east are transparent and immoral.  It's nothing more than you drinking your own koolaid.  Yes, slavery covered a range of possibilities, yet it was still an evil in and of itself, visited by the same excesses which the African slave trade visited upon us.  You do everything but say that slavery was a zippity doo-dah pleasant way to live one's life.  It wasn't.  Slaves lived second class lives and people resorted to such measures out of desperation or worse.  Your attempts to muddy the waters with bullshit red herrings is disgusting.  

A perfect example of how deference to the Bible and Christianity can cause someone to lose their moral compass, yet make them believe they are the ones being moral.

This is exactly why I spend time debating against that immoral belief system.

"Why not just let people believe what they want?", I hear often. Sorry, but people's beliefs  don't live in a vaccum, they inform their actions. And making excuses for slavery is just one example of an immoral person believing they are moral.

It's also incredibly stupid of them to ignore the fact that children are forced to believe these things via indoctrination, so it's not even their choice and they become brainwashed to 'want' to believe that garbage. Virtually every person who does believe would not otherwise if they weren't victims of people whose beliefs were that it is an imperative to do this to them (for the same reason they became that way in the first place.)

[Redbeard The Pink]

[quote='Drich' pid='1614727' dateline='1504632124']
...and what does an ot Jew under the whip of a philistine care or know about the future teachings of Jesus?

God as per the parable of the talents and how he has handled everyone in the O and NT only holds you responsible for what you know to be right and or wrong.

Oh no, enslaving Hebrews isn't allowed unless you're also a Hebrew and they're in debt, and you're not allowed to keep the men longer than 7 years unless you ensnare them by letting them start a family they're not allowed to take along when they go free. Foreigners, on the other hand, may be taken as slaves and treated as property (bought, sold, bequeathed to children, etc.).

What I am saying when the paslm in question was written the whole nation of Israel was conquered and taken by the philistines I believe and Everyone of sound body who was a jew were gather up and marched back to philistine and sold into slavery. This happened several times in the OT by different people. This song/psalm was written about the captors and their evil children.

The OT does, however, say that you can beat your slaves as long as they don't die right away or lose eyes or teeth. How compassionate. What a loving gwawd.

indeed. How else to punish someone who is already in the middle of the greatest punishment a soceity like that already has? After all all non God center soceity did not have any rules on slavery.

Oh, and then there's the NT admonition for slaves to obey even cruel masters as one would obey Christ. Neat[/color]

Indeed. Sound advise even if you apply it to the modern word of employer/employee after all the slaves like modern day employers you referenced in the OT compensated their slaves/employees.

So again not all slaves are human chattle. Slave is a much broader word that has lost most all of it's meaning in the modern vanicular. Today it only means a beaten broken black man picking cotton in a white man's field. While the word use to mean anything from chattle slavery to contract employment meaning instead of money I work for you, you give me land to work house to live in food for me and my family and protection from evil people and I give you work in that field and a precentage of everything it produces. Or slavery in the case of Joseph meant everything from chattle slavery to being the second in command of all of egypt.

That is one thing you douche bags forget about the word slavery as the bible uses it. it was the rewards the slaves were entitled to, because again you lemmings have been programed to only think black man in a cotton field being beaten by a white man. While that is apart of History, one can not deny that there is no soceity today outside of mud huts that was not built and currently maintained on the backs of slaves. (OT version not yours)

Well riddle me this first... if a psalm is just a song or hymn what does it matter what it says to a NT christian if said Christian can see a level of wrong that an OT jew could not?

Is this or isn't this the word of your god, Drich?

How about common knowledge from the Jews Christians and anyone not activly looking for reasons to blindly feel justified in hating God. How else do we know Psalms is not a book of commands? Because the word itself defines it to be a book of song and not a book of law.

So does modern society... or can you show me a society that is not build and currently maintain by a slave labor force?

Wait...so are you saying slavery isn't wrong?

What I asked you was to show me ONE example of a soceity not built on or completely dependent on slavery You said there were several.. So I am asking you to provide one. just one.

Am I hearing that correctly? I mean sure, slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation are still extant problems despite the fact that they're almost universally reviled by the average member of the public, but, like...we still agree those things are immoral, right?[/color]

not just a problem sport.. our entire societal foundation. without slavery, human trafficking, and labor exploitation the world as you know it would be at an end.

Not saying this is a good thing I am pointing it out so people like you can't pretend that your money your life style does not support what you seem to be above.

When I say slavery, I'm generally talking about owning other people as property while detaining/working them against their will. Let's deal with one issue at a time.

"Society being built on" something doesn't make the thing good or acceptable, and being anti-slavery as a member of a late-stage-capitalist society where ethical consumerism is impossible doesn't make me a hypocrite. Even if it did, you're still basically dodging the question. Is slavery immoral, or isn't it?

It doesn't really matter that this passage is from Psalms. The bible has no shortage of language like this in other books. Your god is constantly smiting and commanding people to annihilate each other. He's basically a blood demon.