I re read what I wrote and this may end up coming across as rambling as I haven't gathered my thoughts rightly enough. There is a point at the end though! This may be better in a different section.
So, I'm looking for a discussion. I've been struggling with life in general lately, I would amount it to depression or loneliness, kind of but not really, I don't really know, it's sort of an empty feeling that nothing I do matters. It forces me to think about things I normally wouldn't otherwise and because of my work schedule I am up for most of the night alone in my room which doesn't help.
Just a little back story.
I was raised Roman Catholic and the church has made me the kind , caring, respectful, and considerate person I am today. My household wasn't strict about religion other then you go to church on Sunday and then go to the hour long school afterwards. I did all of the rituals from baptism to confirmation. My grandparents on both sides are deeply religious, one of my grandfathers is a part time minister and one of my grandmothers prays the rosary probably 50 times a night for each person in the whole extended family. Neither are hard core religious they go about their business normally and don't bother others. For me none of my current actions are guided by the idea that I'll go to hell if I think other then what the bible says. I personally learned to understand that as long as we ourselves believe what we are doing is right, and we are willing to listen to someone that tells us we are doing something bad, then there isn't anything wrong. If there is a god he can't really judge us for the environment we were raised (child soldiers in Africa, sociopath, being abused, molested and not being afforded help) but he/she/it can judge us if we commit murder knowing full well it is wrong. In the same vein we are allowed to question god and the world because, yes, he designed us in his image therefor. That doesn't mean he is a human being but I'll kind of talk about that in a second.
I haven't gone to church in years, when I was home from college my Mom would bitch if I didn't. One day I wouldn't go and she yelled at me, "You aren't going to make me lose my religion." I brought it up later but she never really talked about it again. I can only assume, because she loves her children so much, perhaps sees it as it is her letting god down if she can't get me to go or a failure on her part. She was raised in a different time period and is arguably uneducated (she is a great Mom though.) My Dad is very intelligent and he will read and watch programs on every scientific subject imaginable. He is heavily involved in the church but doesn't talk about religion. He also understands the world from different points of view unlike my Mom. When I went to church I'd roll my eyes most of the time during the sermons, I look around and see people nodding as the paster is speaking and I feel like I'm starring at sheep. I subscribe to the thinking that we should really figure things for ourselves, religion is a great guiding stick but at some point you need to let go. Read the bible and come to your own conclusions.
I don't agree with organized religion for many reasons. Religion IS the creation of man. I do believe that there was a man called Jesus, evidence supports that claim, and he absolutely changed the course of the world. However, I would debate what his relationship to god was and if any of his miracles were real. Obviously he was crucified for being a rebel and governments feared the following he gathered and this new way of thinking. Ignoring religion for a moment I feel spirituality is something far different and far greater. Spirituality could be due to the evolution of the mind trying to deal with 'consciousness/ soul' as we gained awareness of existence or it is something given to us along the way after we evolved far enough to satisfy whatever greater being is out there, which would be why Jesus came to existence, or we had it all along. If we had it all along then the thinking would be the the soul has nothing to do with being homosapiens, it is just a force acting on us and can leave and arrive whenever. Okay, I don't know, it's a thought. We do know that the practice of spirituality/ worship/etc. has taken place for far longer then we could probably find fossils for which I find to be significant, as is the concept of the life we have, love, etc. I'll get to love in a second.
I'll get to my point now.
I can't accept 'Atheism' and this is where I'm looking for discussion. It seems there are too many different schools of thought and you all suffer the same stereotypes you fight against in the religious crowd. I've seen it surfing the forums and in public. Yes, there are Christians who are ignorant and are incapable of thinking for themselves, follow circular logic or plan 'ol lack an understanding of their own religions history. You guys have that too. Most of it seems to come from pissed off teenagers. I wish I had a better example for my perspective but it seems to boil down to something like this, "IF there was a god then why is [____] insert war, drugs, genocide, environment, rape, blah blah blah because rational thought says [____] insert quote, scientific, study, spaghetti monster etc. A lot of it seems to be a lack of understanding of your own material, again, in the same way religious individuals can't separate spirituality and religion.
To me the core of Atheism is the desire to remove religion from humanity because it impedes on our evolution of rational thought, science, education or understanding the universe, creates wars, etc. I don't disagree with that. However there seems to be a larger goal of trying to, 'kill god,' which I don't understand. I see existence, the people we meet, our experiences as significant. Yes, I understand the water in the puddle analogy of, "If rain woke up in a ditch as a puddle it might say, 'this hole was obviously made for me." I don't have the exact quote but it is something like that. We are a product of our environment in essence. To me there is a difference between survival and purpose. Deer, fish, birds fight for survival. For us to survive we captured fire, built houses and made weapons. We evolved along a different path and yes we have flaws. We have to have flaw and doubt. Those doubts and flaws give us drive to better ourselves as a species. If we all knew there was a god and he visited us regularly what would be the point of doing anything? We pray and god gives us what we want? There wouldn't be any significance to life. Right? In a way life is one big lesson, for some it is easier and some harder, longer or shorter. So, why would our minds evolve to form consciousness and love? Yes, love binds us together which makes our species stronger as a pack, smart evolution, and consciousness allows us the desire to say ,'I,' to build and create.
I've hit a dead end but I'll leave it at this as said on South Park. On discussion of evolution, "Couldn't it be the answer to how and not why."
Obviously, I've taken the side of creationism here but I want to know your thoughts on spirituality and your fellow Atheists. Do you think there is a rift in your own community, a lack of knowledge or central guidance? IF you had guidance or a set of rules you would be stronger, but then you would just be another religion of sheeople, right? Is there a better way to approach religious individuals to allow them to see a 'godless' way of thinking? Are people who are Atheist just unfathomably disconnected from the universe around us that you would rather dissect and study a carcass then just sit watch how the creature behaves and its importance for existence? Or is studying the carcass what we are meant to do?
I may have made omissions or included poor grammar, forgive me for that.
So, I'm looking for a discussion. I've been struggling with life in general lately, I would amount it to depression or loneliness, kind of but not really, I don't really know, it's sort of an empty feeling that nothing I do matters. It forces me to think about things I normally wouldn't otherwise and because of my work schedule I am up for most of the night alone in my room which doesn't help.
Just a little back story.
I was raised Roman Catholic and the church has made me the kind , caring, respectful, and considerate person I am today. My household wasn't strict about religion other then you go to church on Sunday and then go to the hour long school afterwards. I did all of the rituals from baptism to confirmation. My grandparents on both sides are deeply religious, one of my grandfathers is a part time minister and one of my grandmothers prays the rosary probably 50 times a night for each person in the whole extended family. Neither are hard core religious they go about their business normally and don't bother others. For me none of my current actions are guided by the idea that I'll go to hell if I think other then what the bible says. I personally learned to understand that as long as we ourselves believe what we are doing is right, and we are willing to listen to someone that tells us we are doing something bad, then there isn't anything wrong. If there is a god he can't really judge us for the environment we were raised (child soldiers in Africa, sociopath, being abused, molested and not being afforded help) but he/she/it can judge us if we commit murder knowing full well it is wrong. In the same vein we are allowed to question god and the world because, yes, he designed us in his image therefor. That doesn't mean he is a human being but I'll kind of talk about that in a second.
I haven't gone to church in years, when I was home from college my Mom would bitch if I didn't. One day I wouldn't go and she yelled at me, "You aren't going to make me lose my religion." I brought it up later but she never really talked about it again. I can only assume, because she loves her children so much, perhaps sees it as it is her letting god down if she can't get me to go or a failure on her part. She was raised in a different time period and is arguably uneducated (she is a great Mom though.) My Dad is very intelligent and he will read and watch programs on every scientific subject imaginable. He is heavily involved in the church but doesn't talk about religion. He also understands the world from different points of view unlike my Mom. When I went to church I'd roll my eyes most of the time during the sermons, I look around and see people nodding as the paster is speaking and I feel like I'm starring at sheep. I subscribe to the thinking that we should really figure things for ourselves, religion is a great guiding stick but at some point you need to let go. Read the bible and come to your own conclusions.
I don't agree with organized religion for many reasons. Religion IS the creation of man. I do believe that there was a man called Jesus, evidence supports that claim, and he absolutely changed the course of the world. However, I would debate what his relationship to god was and if any of his miracles were real. Obviously he was crucified for being a rebel and governments feared the following he gathered and this new way of thinking. Ignoring religion for a moment I feel spirituality is something far different and far greater. Spirituality could be due to the evolution of the mind trying to deal with 'consciousness/ soul' as we gained awareness of existence or it is something given to us along the way after we evolved far enough to satisfy whatever greater being is out there, which would be why Jesus came to existence, or we had it all along. If we had it all along then the thinking would be the the soul has nothing to do with being homosapiens, it is just a force acting on us and can leave and arrive whenever. Okay, I don't know, it's a thought. We do know that the practice of spirituality/ worship/etc. has taken place for far longer then we could probably find fossils for which I find to be significant, as is the concept of the life we have, love, etc. I'll get to love in a second.
I'll get to my point now.
I can't accept 'Atheism' and this is where I'm looking for discussion. It seems there are too many different schools of thought and you all suffer the same stereotypes you fight against in the religious crowd. I've seen it surfing the forums and in public. Yes, there are Christians who are ignorant and are incapable of thinking for themselves, follow circular logic or plan 'ol lack an understanding of their own religions history. You guys have that too. Most of it seems to come from pissed off teenagers. I wish I had a better example for my perspective but it seems to boil down to something like this, "IF there was a god then why is [____] insert war, drugs, genocide, environment, rape, blah blah blah because rational thought says [____] insert quote, scientific, study, spaghetti monster etc. A lot of it seems to be a lack of understanding of your own material, again, in the same way religious individuals can't separate spirituality and religion.
To me the core of Atheism is the desire to remove religion from humanity because it impedes on our evolution of rational thought, science, education or understanding the universe, creates wars, etc. I don't disagree with that. However there seems to be a larger goal of trying to, 'kill god,' which I don't understand. I see existence, the people we meet, our experiences as significant. Yes, I understand the water in the puddle analogy of, "If rain woke up in a ditch as a puddle it might say, 'this hole was obviously made for me." I don't have the exact quote but it is something like that. We are a product of our environment in essence. To me there is a difference between survival and purpose. Deer, fish, birds fight for survival. For us to survive we captured fire, built houses and made weapons. We evolved along a different path and yes we have flaws. We have to have flaw and doubt. Those doubts and flaws give us drive to better ourselves as a species. If we all knew there was a god and he visited us regularly what would be the point of doing anything? We pray and god gives us what we want? There wouldn't be any significance to life. Right? In a way life is one big lesson, for some it is easier and some harder, longer or shorter. So, why would our minds evolve to form consciousness and love? Yes, love binds us together which makes our species stronger as a pack, smart evolution, and consciousness allows us the desire to say ,'I,' to build and create.
I've hit a dead end but I'll leave it at this as said on South Park. On discussion of evolution, "Couldn't it be the answer to how and not why."
Obviously, I've taken the side of creationism here but I want to know your thoughts on spirituality and your fellow Atheists. Do you think there is a rift in your own community, a lack of knowledge or central guidance? IF you had guidance or a set of rules you would be stronger, but then you would just be another religion of sheeople, right? Is there a better way to approach religious individuals to allow them to see a 'godless' way of thinking? Are people who are Atheist just unfathomably disconnected from the universe around us that you would rather dissect and study a carcass then just sit watch how the creature behaves and its importance for existence? Or is studying the carcass what we are meant to do?
I may have made omissions or included poor grammar, forgive me for that.
