Objections to the April Fools Day prank.

[Violet]

Indeed. Moral of the story should be never to trust a simple username. You have no idea who they might be.

But you can trust I am who I say I am, sans hyperactivity while you're trying to sleep

[Tiberius]

You can trust some of us, after all, our docs are online and we sometimes hangout in webcam chats. Further than that, don't trust a damn thing anyone says.

[Shell B]

Alei said she wouldn't, not that she was. Shell quoted a recent PM as far as I know, not one since that statement, as it had only just been made.

No, the PM was sent before I engaged her about it at all. It was sent while she was saying that she thought the whole thing was squashed. I should point out that she also implied in the PM that Adrian is biased toward me and then went on to say he was a great admin. It's funny that you are taking her word about the timeline, when the very reason for this was the fact that she was lying.

Shell deliberately used a private correspondance between Alei and what Alei thought was an independant ally in LMA who was suffering similar attacks to herself that Shell had been inflicting on her.

More of this bullshit? Firstly, the very term ally goes to show that Alei was trying to build up dislike about me. Apparently, her parade of allies did not need an extra body. Furthermore, I was not attacking LMA. I know this because I attacked myself with LMA. Had alei bothered to figure that out, this would not have happened. You also have the little issue with the fact that LMA did not talk to Alei once. Alei made a stupid decision and lied about it. I was pissed that she was being two-faced. Given that her two-faced behavior worked, I regret bothering.

More reserved than the outright slagging off that Shell issued after this new information granted (and I believe Shell apologised for that outburst), but obvious attacks to me.

More reserved? I haven't sent any private PMs trying to roust people to my side of it. I didn't go off on a private vendetta. I said what I had to say publicly and called her out publicly. She had earned no right to privacy from me.

Alei has stated her opinion and kudos to her, chooses to step back from it.

A smart move on her part.

Sure Alei was/is hurting.

Hurting? Give me a break. She has her fan club to "privately" support her.

No... what is private is not also public, which is where common decency steps in. Shell showed disregard for private space and violated Alei's by posting her private thoughts.

No, I showed disregard for a liar. I will continue to do as much.

There was nothing admirable about what Shell did. It was shameful. Shell is the one with the slight power in this situation. The oness is upon her here to show more responsibility. At the moment the ball is on the other foot.

It's onus. I did show more responsibility up until two posts that I made. I ignored behavior for which others have been banned for months. I kept my personal opinions of her off this site. I did not try to seek sympathy using outright lies. I did not sic a band of assholes on her by lying and manipulating the situation. I have been upfront and honest about the entire thing and the posts are there to prove it, but you won't listen. That's not mine, or Adrian's, problem.

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Looks like it. Apparently we aren't free enough to consider fault may have occurred. It's an anti honesty stance.

Funny that you say this and that alei, of all people, gave you kudos for it. I see your support of an obvious and utter liar as a stance against honesty. You essentially say I have no right to be honest about the situation while supporting the very person whose lies fueled the initial blowout and continue to fuel hostility against me. If anyone is against honesty, it is you and your band of daydream believers.

This has gone to show me that a woman can get everywhere, get all the support and attention she needs by lying and manipulating easily duped men and they will utterly ignore the facts that show they are being lied to and manipulated. You want honesty? That is fucking honesty.

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Haha, now, I'm just calling bullshit on all of your "she is taking the higher road and staying out of it." Her illiterate new avatar is enough to show that she is just being as she has always been, clumsily sneaky and two-faced. And with that, sir, you, and she, can go fuck yourselves. "Backing out of it." *shakes head* Suuuure. As if she is the one being "h8ted on" [sic for grammar and spelling].

[Autumnlicious]

There is no further reason for this thread to continue except to upset people.

I would like to wish all claimants a nice and fine day and to quit the fueling.

It is no secret now what either side regards of the other.

It is also clear that as long as emotions are inflamed, neither side will compromise fairly, let alone compromise.

I suggest we simmer it down and try to be friends. You'll be able to see our point of view, and we'll be able to see yours -- it would be my hope that within a short amount of time, people would feel freer to take a more active role in forum policies well before we encounter a situation that demands immediate resolution.

For example, perhaps if we had posted an announcement at the start of March reminding users of previous April Fools it would have better primed people to be less serious as April loomed. I don't know -- posters here do not express enough to me exactly how much they want to be involved or how much of a heads up they need.

Indeed, I wonder if this entire blow up could have been smoothed over if we had more of an understanding. However, I admit that even then, there are somethings that are unavoidable -- this may have been one of those things.

Now, who is going to post a productive thread?

EDIT: If this thread becomes inflamed within five (5) posts, I will close it. I want people to rebuild bridges and be productive, nothing else.

[Shell B]

I have said everything that needs to be said on the topic. I am with you on this completely. However, I will further add that if any flaming on this matter continues, via posts, pictures, etc., I will consider it rule breaking and will report it and discuss it with the rest of the staff. I also consider myself part of this and encourage reporting any posts I make that anyone feels breaks the rules. If people here do not want to be targets, they should not make targets of other people. Of course, as always, productive discussion is my hope.

Shall I post another boobs thread for you? Is that productive enough?

[thesummerqueen]

LOL, there really are no rules on this forum. You have the mods who can do what they want, and the members that have to depend on their popularity not to get permabanned.

It is this sort of misinformation and speculation that causes these issues. Mods cannot do whatever they want. We have had mods step down because their behavior was disagreed upon amongst staff. You have been spreading this disinformation, which is why I said you were flaming. If the forum knew the half of what goes down among staff, your tactics would stall dead in the water.

Its really not that much different than anyother form of government. The top end gets to do what they want and the rules are for everyone else who cant pull the popularity card.

Popularity? Really? What is it with this word and you people? It is quite clear that I am not popular here at all. The only card I can pull is that I actually know what is going on. I don't just pull shit out of my ass.

Either way I believe what Tib told me, or at least I want to. I still have issues with Tib and shell for past history, but hey...what can I do? Might as well scream at a brick wall.

You should believe him. He has said nothing but the truth in here. The conspiracy theories have obviously stemmed from private conversations among members who have very misinformed opinions on what the staff does when you all aren't looking.

This. I'm continuing this firstly because of this quoted post.

The next time any one of you has a goddamn problem - FUCKING ASK - don't assume. Don't start nattering amongst yourselves coming up with suppositions. Listening to other non-staff members come up with theories is about as useful as tits on a bull.

Oh, this isnt over the top yet. Shell is at cyber bitch factor 3 right now.

I'm quite willing to get my slap for this now, because I'm over it: stop being a goddamn retard. You used to have a sense of humor. You have none now. This "she calls herself a cyber bitch" bullshit is just another way for you to jab at someone using a private joke you had no business in, and it bothers me because the old RevJ wouldn't have thought about it for a second. There's me being personal.

And? I said exactly what I sent in that PM publicly in the forum. That you're Tib's bitch and he won't do anything against you.

And, that is bullshit. If I was wrong, he would tell me so. If I did something he didn't agree with, he would change it and has made me do so in the past! He also takes my opinion into account when I disagree with him.

I know that the staff can say with absolute certainty that your statement is utter bullshit. Whenever I warn someone and tibs agrees, someone pulls that card. I assume you have spoken to such a someone or derived your opinion from the fact that we flirt and he happens to own the forum. Either way, you are very wrong.

This wasn't directed at me in the slightest, but I'm going to step up because of prior insinuations: the decisions you usually see are made after there has been some sort of consensus by the staff. That doesn't mean we all agree with it. Some of us might still have reservations about actions taken. We are not a hive mind. We discuss and disagree and come to respectful end positions. That aside, not a goddamn one of us is "influenced" by other staff members except through persuasive, rational argument. So, new guy, because you are a new guy, start thinking before you throw those accusations out.

I for one don't defend or "attack" anyone on this forum except because I feel it's the right thing to do - theist or atheist - and that includes when I've defended Mehmet or Tiberius. I can assure you that every other staff member, Shell or Tiberius, does the same.

No one becomes staff without the rest of us having good confidence that we could separate personal feelings from rational judgments. It's a fact I'd rather have staff members of this forum heading this country than who we've got now, simply because of that. I'm aware not all of you feel the same, but if any of you value what I contribute or trust my judgments in any way (and I don't flatter myself that any of you really do), then there's my opinion on it.

I'd like to add that I have a sneaking suspicion how you became a mod in the first place.

Actually, to my knowledge, I am the only person in the history of AF who was ever brought on Staff by Tiberius without a vote. Not Shell B.

...and I can assure you of this ... Tiberius and I are not dating or even remotely flirtatious.

just FYI

Don't make me refute my statement about "personal feelings."

j/k. Maybe.

How could the tune have changed before the fact, or indeed, during it? People thought that the puppets were real.

Because, sweetheart, other members dug into the ensuing "OMG! Hilarious! You had me fooled!" and made it malicious *after* the fact.

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I can't send Moros more boob pictures until I get home, so please, everyone...keep it civil.

Or not - he might like it.

[fr0d0]

Alei said she wouldn't, not that she was. Shell quoted a recent PM as far as I know, not one since that statement, as it had only just been made.

No, the PM was sent before I engaged her about it at all (1). It was sent while she was saying that she thought the whole thing was squashed. I should point out that she also implied in the PM that Adrian is biased toward me and then went on to say he was a great admin. It's funny that you are taking her word about the timeline, when the very reason for this was the fact that she was lying (2).

(1) That's what I am saying. The PM was sent before Alei said she was done with the public fight. You produced the PM that was before the fact. ((2) I'm unsure of this from your statement above, because you seem to be saying both things). Of course Adrian is biased about you, in a good way IMO. I think I'm biased in your favour too.

The question of Alei's truth position is irrelevant to me, and it is off the point of my complaint about you. You keep going off on it, failing to spot my actual complaint. Yes I appreciate that was your motive for the act, but the act is what I condenm you for and not the reason for it.

Shell deliberately used a private correspondance between Alei and what Alei thought was an independant ally in LMA who was suffering similar attacks to herself that Shell had been inflicting on her.

More of this bullshit? Firstly, the very term ally goes to show that Alei was trying to build up dislike about me. Apparently, her parade of allies did not need an extra body. Furthermore, I was not attacking LMA. I know this because I attacked myself with LMA. Had alei bothered to figure that out, this would not have happened. You also have the little issue with the fact that LMA did not talk to Alei once. Alei made a stupid decision and lied about it. I was pissed that she was being two-faced. Given that her two-faced behavior worked, I regret bothering.

I have two points against you Shell. I haven't changed those. You haven't given me reason to retract them. Is you talking to anyone about your issues with another person you building up dislike about them? Are you not permitted personal council amongst fellow humans?

You didn't attack LMA but you did?? You seem to assert that LMA being you should have been known as fact.

Alei in no way could have known that you were LMA, and clearly she didn't. Rather than doing the decent thing and stepping back out of that unfair position of trust, yes you have a responsibility of trust, you decided to use a persons personal counsel against them. This was completely dishonest and low. That act, on its own, makes you the bad guy. Trying to defend your action by citing an abusive situation that both you and Alei participated in, is no defence.

Like I've said, I agree that you were innocent of the accusations that Alei made against you. To you as an adult, I say: diddums. Be the better person and have some thought of the other person who is clearly sufferring from their own guilt. Don't flame the fire and cry that you're the one being hurt.

Please desist from playing the victim and thus diverting from the issue here. This is your bag.

More reserved than the outright slagging off that Shell issued after this new information granted (and I believe Shell apologised for that outburst), but obvious attacks to me.

More reserved? I haven't sent any private PMs trying to roust people to my side of it. I didn't go off on a private vendetta. I said what I had to say publicly and called her out publicly. She had earned no right to privacy from me.

'Public' being the key word. I don't expect anyone to dig up private information about you and use it to discredit you publically. For that I would want to see justice served upon them. We have ongoing cases in the UK wreaking havoc on the press for such behavour, and rightly so.

Sure Alei was/is hurting.

Hurting? Give me a break. She has her fan club to "privately" support her.

That she feels the need for mutual support is further proof of hurt felt.

No... what is private is not also public, which is where common decency steps in. Shell showed disregard for private space and violated Alei's by posting her private thoughts.

No, I showed disregard for a liar. I will continue to do as much.

The supposed lies are immaterial, and no part of your charge. You're the fellow sibling crying to mummy that you are hurt too. It would do you credit to let go of it.

There was nothing admirable about what Shell did. It was shameful. Shell is the one with the slight power in this situation. The onus is upon her here to show more responsibility. At the moment the ball is on the other foot.

I did show more responsibility up until two posts that I made. I ignored behavior for which others have been banned for months. I kept my personal opinions of her off this site. I did not try to seek sympathy using outright lies. I did not sic a band of assholes on her by lying and manipulating the situation. I have been upfront and honest about the entire thing and the posts are there to prove it, but you won't listen. That's not mine, or Adrian's, problem.

I don't care what you did before the event. For my part I saw you constantly having a dig. Again, immaterial.

What behaviour? She dared insult a member of staff? As I've said, I saw you do the most. And I'm on your side in that argument. I didn't see you withold your opinions of her. Your accusations of her I take to be drawn from a private conversation, that information used dishonestly.

You think I won't listen, but what you're asking me to accept is irrelevant to the point in hand. You were enraged by evidence you had no business seeing. You shouldn't have put yourself in the position of looking at that (fault yours), and when you did you should have passed it over as you had far too much personal investment in it to be objective. All faults of yours, and not of Alei's.

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Looks like it. Apparently we aren't free enough to consider fault may have occurred. It's an anti honesty stance.

Funny that you say this and that alei, of all people, gave you kudos for it. I see your support of an obvious and utter liar as a stance against honesty. You essentially say I have no right to be honest about the situation while supporting the very person whose lies fueled the initial blowout and continue to fuel hostility against me. If anyone is against honesty, it is you and your band of daydream believers.

The comment was nothing to do with Alei. You're obsessed. The comment is about Tiberiouses statement that the staff will not ever accept blame. I'm still not supporting Alei. What I'm questioning is your abuse of a private conversation. Please stop trying to divert the issue.

This has gone to show me that a woman can get everywhere, get all the support and attention she needs by lying and manipulating easily duped men and they will utterly ignore the facts that show they are being lied to and manipulated. You want honesty? That is fucking honesty.

Well I think your wider reputation stands. Please don't play the martyr.

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Haha, now, I'm just calling bullshit on all of your "she is taking the higher road and staying out of it." Her illiterate new avatar is enough to show that she is just being as she has always been, clumsily sneaky and two-faced. And with that, sir, you, and she, can go fuck yourselves. "Backing out of it." *shakes head* Suuuure. As if she is the one being "h8ted on" [sic for grammar and spelling].

More insults.

Can you see you haven't addressed my complaints at all?

[Shell B]

Just to be clear, go fuck yourself is not an insult. It is a request. Frods, you keep being wrong on a bunch of levels, in my opinion and I in yours. That clearly is not going to change in either direction. If you feel like you and I have to hash this out, feel free to message me. If you can just let it go, given that it did not involve you, then you can do that too. Either way, this is not continuing in this thread.

[Cyberman]

If being abusive is the only way to get you to see the truth then so be it. Know we do it out of love, numb-nuts

I am offend! Apology demanded!

Alright, alright I apologise. I'm really, really sorry. I apologise unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The insult was totally without basis in fact and was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by the spirit of the day and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

Your humble servant, Darwinian

Well that'll do for a start. Now you've offended me with your grovelling Uriah Heep impression. Or maybe your new avatar. Or both (ain't decided yet).

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Shouldn't need this, but just to be sure in this uncertain climate:

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[Cinjin]

Does anyone want our new AF T-shirt ...