How to avoid losing respect for friends

[fr0d0]

2nd thoughts FNM. I like yours better.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If your friend swore that milk came from chickens he would be wrong

'

Yes,he would. So far,in 40 years, he has never said anything that stupid. Would I be wiling to differ on a point of fact and just let it go? I hope so,but I probably would not,I'd argue the point,demanding evidence for his claim. He does say some things I think are absurd, as I'm sure I do for him.


I usually manage to work out if a person is stupid within a matter of a few weeks at most. I do not pursue friendships with such people. The constant effluvia of stupidity would drive me nuts.

[TheJackel]

I chose to put this post in the psychology section because it refers to my feelings about friends who believe in religion and (shall we say) unproven phenomena.

Over the last four years I have increasingly found it very hard to stay friends with anyone who doesn't think scientifically, which is a problem.

I respect other view points and opinions, but all to often non scientific minds will assumes to know the answer to something without research, which I find arrogant.

Last night I learned that one of my best friends is a creationist. I was shocked and hurt that he would dismiss all the years of research and combined scrutiny that produced the evolution theory. I see him as someone who is therefore arrogant and foolish.

I preferred to see him as a great friend (which he is), rather than someone who I have lost respect for. How do I balance those two thoughts simultaneously?

Religious beliefs and differences are not a necessity to friendship.. Nor is it needed to be a topic of discussion between two friends.. So here is the solution I gave one of my friends when it came up:

You believe in GOD, and believe that we were all created to which makes you feel like you have a purpose in life..It makes you feel special. I believe that we are uniquely emergent beings without prefabrication or creation by another being.. However, in either case we are still amazing, unique, and living lives with a sense of purpose. So despite the differences of how we think we got here, we are friends, and we should value that as deeply as we value our personal beliefs.

It solved the problem, and I've been friends with my friend now for over 8 years.

[LiberalHearted]

You believe in GOD, and believe that we were all created to which makes you feel like you have a purpose in life..It makes you feel special. I believe that we are uniquely emergent beings without prefabrication or creation by another being.. However, in either case we are still amazing, unique, and living lives with a sense of purpose. So despite the differences of how we think we got here, we are friends, and we should value that as deeply as we value our personal beliefs.
It solved the problem, and I've been friends with my friend now for over 8 years.

Well said. Friendships are based on multiple reasons. Should belief and non belief of god break a friendship up then there is something not quite right with that relationship.

Same said with me, although a few may be pushy over a 'must' believe in god; all I need to do is remind those few that isn't what our friendship is based on.

As much as believing (faith) is generally fear based; I've noticed that same expression of fear on faces of friends that I freely tell of my atheism. Any animosity that comes from them; which is as a for instance "what do you worship" resounds that shriek of vocal level that can be recognized as fear.

Great thing my compassion was a Grandpa made thing though; I remember him gently cupping flies and shooing them out the window. He never did announce his non belief, and shrugged it off as 'this is who I am'. I can't say he was an atheist but can say the kindest and gentlest person I've known.

[compass]

You believe in GOD, and believe that we were all created to which makes you feel like you have a purpose in life..It makes you feel special. I believe that we are uniquely emergent beings without prefabrication or creation by another being.. However, in either case we are still amazing, unique, and living lives with a sense of purpose. So despite the differences of how we think we got here, we are friends, and we should value that as deeply as we value our personal beliefs.

It solved the problem, and I've been friends with my friend now for over 8 years.
[/quote]

I like your conclusion and I will try and learn from it, but I still find issues because your viewpoint is not a "belief", whereas your friends is a belief.

His/hers is based on belief without evidence, yours is based on evidence and is therefore fact (not a belief).

Thus, you are a person who has the energy to research and the brains to think logically and your friend does not. I know this is black and white but that is how I see it. I would think you are smarter than your friend because of this.

Perhaps I am too stuck in my mind set. I have never ever believed in the Bible or religion so maybe I should leave a small window open for the possibility - that way the evidence I see can become mere belief and we can all believe together in naivety!

To be truthful, I think anyone who claims to know anything about the universe is naive, we're stuck in a slither of three dimensions and (in my mind) really don't know anything - apart from my friend of course, who knows everything!

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If, on the other hand, he believes that 90% of all black people commit crimes then he is objectively incorrect. There is evidence to show he is wrong.

Thats the kind of stuff he would tell me.

Do you see my point. I don't mind peoples opinions, so long as they are based on fact!

I see your point but if some of my friends converted to being creationists I would be kinda pissed that they had been tricked but on the other hand they are my friend regardless of how stupid or wrong they are

I think you are helping me actually. If I had a friend who was generally stupid, but sweet in other ways, I would not worry.

This may sound over the top, but I need to think of creationist as "thick" or simple, instead of cold blooded deniers of obvious evidence.

My friend therefore is a sweet guy, a good laugh but has done zero research into his most treasured beliefs (which is odd) - his delusions, laziness and arrogance (to presume he knows the answer to the universe without research) is a reflection of his overall lack of intelligence. I should not judge a man on his intelligence.

[TheJackel]

I like your conclusion and I will try and learn from it, but I still find issues because your viewpoint is not a "belief", whereas your friends is a belief.

Incorrect. I believe in life, reality, fun, happiness and pretty much anything else that can be empirically supported. Saying Atheists lack "belief" is basically your means to try and rationalize their rejection of your belief in some sky GOD. It's purely dogmatic and nothing more.

This may sound over the top, but I need to think of creationist as "thick" or simple, instead of cold blooded deniers of obvious evidence.

Yes because it requires them not to have to do any actual thinking because it's easy to say the word "GOD"..:/ But of course that also means they don't have to discuss the complexity, systems, and process ect ect required to support a conscious state, cognitive systems, or cognitive processing. Ask them why a rock isn't conscious vs why they are and they will bust a bubble in the brain considering it takes less cause and process to support a rock's unconscious existence than their own.. So it's best to just accept that they aren't ever going to bother with such critical thinking on the subject. It usually means they are very afraid of reality, and it's not really necessary to force them to face it in a friendship..