Hello...

[Edwardo Piet]

"Rational Theist"........

EVF, jump in at any time...LOLOLOL

That's kind of why I phrased it as a question ... whilst I concede it as a possibility I do not believe a Christian (or any other religionist) can be one.

Kyu

Well belief in God is a belief entirely without evidence so is therefore a belief based on "faith". And faith cannot be rational, that's an oxymoron because faith is belief without evidence (as I said) and that's not rational.

So the belief in God, the Christian part of a Christian, their "faith" is irrational They can't be rational because of that. But besides that they can be rational human beings. Although it might at least on average make it more difficult , it might. Because it may be an indication of 'faith-based thinking' and not necessarily only be exclusive to their belief in "God" and everything else attached to it that's part of their religion.

There. I jumped in. Lol.

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

There. I jumped in. Lol.

I do not believe it is inherently irrational to believe in the existence of a god, I draw the line at the point someone either claims it is true or adopts a specific religion.

That's why I refer to theists and religionists, it is possible to be one without being the other ... Cleanthe is a religionist (he believes in a specific religion) and that IMO is irrational but I was being nice because at least he is pro-science.

Kyu

[Cleanthes]

Hmm, interesting...

What do you think about deists? Are they irrational, rational, or somewhere between the two?

Cleanthes

P.S. Appreciate the niceness!

[Kyuuketsuki]

What do you think about deists? Are they irrational, rational, or somewhere between the two?

I have no particular view of them at all. I suppose I think that since they claim their god as a truth they're nuts too!

P.S. Appreciate the niceness!

It would be nice if it lasted but it rarely does I'm afraid.

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

There. I jumped in. Lol.

I do not believe it is inherently irrational to believe in the existence of a god, I draw the line at the point someone either claims it is true or adopts a specific religion.

That's why I refer to theists and religionists, it is possible to be one without being the other ... Cleanthe is a religionist (he believes in a specific religion) and that IMO is irrational but I was being nice because at least he is pro-science.

Kyu

I think a delusional belief is irrational. Because delusions are irrational. But what's rational and non-rational can be subjective I guess. If for example, you think that someone is better off with a comforting delusion than not, then for their own health perhaps it's more rational they keep the delusional since it would be irrational for them to not if that would just be self-sabotage because they can't live without their comforting delusion, their faith-based belief.

Pro-science, and particularly pro-evolution is a big start! Certainly!

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

I think a delusional belief is irrational. Because delusions are irrational. But what's rational and non-rational can be subjective I guess. If for example, you think that someone is better off with a comforting delusion than not, then for their own health perhaps it's more rational they keep the delusional since it would be irrational for them to not if that would just be self-sabotage because they can't live without their comforting delusion, their faith-based belief.

Pro-science, and particularly pro-evolution is a big start! Certainly!

Fine but there is nothing specifically delusional about believing there is a god ... once you step over the line and claim it's true, adopt a specific religionist viewpoint or shape your life on the basis of that belief it's different but just believing is nothing more than any other belief any of us would hold for personal reasons. That I believe there is other life in the universe is no different than believing in a god in principle ... neither view can be proven (although I happen to think the evidence supporting the possibility of other life is stronger).

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't mean delusional in the clinical sense of course. I mean 'God is a delusion' in the very vague sense Dawkains speaks of in TGD - it's a belief as false as any other 'false belief' because it lacks any evidence whatsoever. And it is both a 'faith belief' and an irrational belief because of one thing - it lacks any evidence whatsoever to back it up.

And as I said. It's the belief itself that is a 'delusion' and that's the delusional part. Other than that you can of course be a completely rational individual. Although I think the mindset of someone who has 'a "Faith"' of some form or other perhaps on average tends to be less rational over all. I mean some of the most rational people are quite commonly atheistic I think?

And the whole thing that 'on average atheists have a higher IQ' and shit like that. But in and of itself, other than the 'God belief' itself - you can be perfectly rational (well, as perfect as anyone else can be!) and still be a theist (or a deist, etc) - of course you can!

EvF

[Giff]

A rational theist?

Rational and theist do I not think fit in the same sentence.

but welcome anyway Cleanthes!