Scouting

[znk666]

I wonder what their reaction would be if you'd claim that you believe in the Almighty Spaghetti Monster?

[Jackalope]

if any, compromise on your personal principles is acceptable to achieve what you think is a greater good.

What do you mean by "the common good"? If you mean some amorphous mass of anonymous others I don't care about,their interests invariably come a poor second to my own. I DID sometimes compromise 'for my mates' in the army and will sometimes do so for my family and others I care about.

"Greater good", not "common good". As in the greater good achieved by maximizing my involvement in my son's life and that of his friends.

However, I agree with you about the bigotry in the scouting movement. For that reason I would not allow my child to join,period. Seeing you have already compromised your principles in allowing your son to join the scouts,I think you have an obligation to him to support him in any way possible,including direct involvement. I'm having trouble understanding your apparent hypocrisy,so I'm guessing a ten year old might too.

It's not really a question of allowing him to join, really. His mother is his primary guardian. We don't see eye-to-eye on this issue (she's a fundamentalist xtian), and I don't interfere with her telling him what her beliefs are, and she gives the same courtesy. He's allowed to decide for himself what he believes and what his interests are (to a degree).

[Chris.Roth]

Wow, what a tough question. One thing Richard Dawkins has always professed is that telling a child they must believe something is wrong--however, I also think a child should have access to all religious beliefs in some way, so they can make the decision themselves when they're ready. The scary thing about this is whether or not the brainwashing of religious institutions is coming into play. I think as a parent, the most important thing is the welfare of your child, no matter your belief. If you want your child to be exposed to different religions, as well as atheism, I think you should ask yourself is an organization based on creationism is the best place to do that. If you think Scouts is an important factor, maybe try to find a way to expose him to other mindsets on the side. I really think the most important thing in this situation is to make sure he has all the resources he needs to make the decision HE wants when he's ready. I hope you find the right answer, and I wish you the best of luck.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Greater good", not "common good". As in the greater good achieved by maximizing my involvement in my son's life and that of his friends.

Ah,big difference,of course.

It's not really a question of allowing him to join, really. His mother is his primary guardian. We don't see eye-to-eye on this issue (she's a fundamentalist xtian), and I don't interfere with her telling him what her beliefs are, and she gives the same courtesy. He's allowed to decide for himself what he believes and what his interests are (to a degree).

Ah more information. NOW I understand your problem. I like to think that in your place I would place my son's need above my own,and participate keeping my mouth shut. I would find that torture.

My apologies for any earlier offence; you do indeed sound like a loving and supportive father.

PS Richard Dawkins opinion on child rearing: Apart from the fact that he has no children,his opinion is as relevant as little Tommy Cruise on psychiatry.

[Jackalope]

No worries, Pad. I appreciate your candor and take no offense to it.

[Ziploc Surprise]

I have a child in Boy scouts. He started as a first year Cub Scout and is almost an Eagle Scout now. My spouse and I volunteer many hours a week in the organization. Though there are problems with the organization overall it's a very good group. It teaches moral concepts but most of the religious stuff is expected to be taught at home. Our particular group has people from many different faiths. It also teaches outdoor skills, and leadership skills and many other things. We have had kids join who have been adjudicated to the troop and other's who's home life is horrible (we're talking about calls to Child Protective Services here). within about 6 months to a year we see a 180 degree turn around. It's very rewarding.

That being said I hate the BSA's discrimination against homosexuals agnostics and atheists. They have a "don't ask don't tell" policy toward atheists and agnostics but if your troop, district or charter organization has a douchebag or two in it and they find out you're an atheist, agnostic or homosexual you could get booted out of leadership. I think it could happen to your son as well but I think they will be lenient to him. I could go on about this if you like but for the sake of space I'll cut this short.

You will find some people who want to make the troop more fundamentalist Christian. It's fairly easy to redirect these people by reminding them of the pluralistic policies of the scouts.

As for ethics. I personally would ask you and your son to stay in scouts. The more non religious people and homosexuals in scouts the more it will eventually prove that these people are not a threat, nor are they immoral. Eventually don't ask don't tell will be repealed. Right now it's a foot in the door. I see it as an opportunity to prove the bigots wrong. I can tell you right now that some of the best scouts and leaders we have (and other troops as well) are non religious. Also some of the worst douche bags and crazy people have been devout Christians.

The Scouts are slow to change but they are going to have to get off their ass and change soon. The tide is turning against them. I suspect that within about 10 years or so their ban on atheists and agnostics will be repealed. Unfortunately for homosexuals I think it will take longer. I could go on about this issue also but for the sake of space I'll cut it short.

[kopper]

Just wanted to let everyone know that a relatively new alternative scouting group is getting off the ground and could use your help in its new crowdsourcing/fundraising campaign on Indiegogo. Here's the link:

http://www.indiegogo.com/bp-service-association

A former Eagle Scout and Boy Scouts of America scout leader from the St. Louis area is heading up this new inclusive, co-ed, traditional-style scouting organization that is based out of Washington, Missouri. His name is David Atchley, and you can read more about him and the Baden-Powell Service Association (BPSA) on their website at www.bpsa-us.org as well as in this very thorough piece that was published by the St. Louis Beacon recently:

http://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/2647...ive_081012

I thought it was worth sharing here in case you hadn't heard about it yet, as I'm sure this would be of interest to atheists who have issues with the BSA.

David was also interviewed on a recent episode of "St. Louis on the Air" on KWMU/St. Louis Public Radio (our local NPR affiliate):





Thanks, and please help spread the word!