Fascinating little video.....

[Minimalist]

well, not so little. About 30 minutes.

Did Muhammad Exist.


http://blip.tv/davidhorowitztv/robert-sp...st-6150014

[Cyberman]

Fascinating indeed, an excellent speaker. Loved the part about the 'Leap Months'.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

I wonder how many Christians might be watching this video and agreeing with it not realizing their religion has similar problems.

[Rayaan]

I'm going to watch this video soon and I'll comment on it once I've seen it.

But I already had this discussion with you before, Min. I think that there are much more arguments for Muhammad's existence than otherwise. Again, the existence of Muhammad is not really a controversial issue as there is a wealth of information about his life and his achievements. Most of the major events in his life are well-documented and his existence is hardly even debated unlike the existence of Jesus. Also, there are mentions of him by his friends, family members, caliphs/successors, and even historians. I highly doubt that all these thousands of information could have been fabricated about a single man while not having any reports or writings from that time period that this whole "Muhammad" person was a lie.

There are biographies about him written by historians with great accuracy along with specific dates and events which occurred during his lifetime, such as where he was born, how he died, who were his wife and children, what battles he fought, etc. We also know the exact location of his tomb which is in this mosque (known as the Mosque of the Prophet). Certain things about his life may not be true, yes, but I think that the opinion that he didn't exist at all is simply due to ignoring all the evidence that are against it. Here are some of the books that have many details about his life:

Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources (by Martin Lings)
The Life of Muhammad (by Ibn Ishaq)

To suggest that all of these things are not actually about Muhammad but about some other "mysterious" Muhammad, is not only unsupported, but also very unlikely.

[Minimalist]

My guess is none, tea

---

Again, the existence of Muhammad is not really a controversial issue as there is a wealth of information about his life and his achievements. Most of the major events in his life are well-documented and his existence is hardly even debated unlike the existence of Jesus.

Maybe not to you but you must recognize that you have certain predetermined notions about it.

I cannot let the xtians get away with "of course jesus was real the bible says so" without holding you to the same standard.

[Rayaan]

Maybe not to you but you must recognize that you have certain predetermined notions about it.

Maybe I do, but I don't think so, and you don't know that.

I cannot let the xtians get away with "of course jesus was real the bible says so" without holding you to the same standard.

You say that as if whatever Christians say about Jesus automatically means the same thing concerning what Muslims say about Muhammad, but that is unreasonable. What Christians think or say doesn't necessarily have to mean that the same goes for the claims of another group of people whether they are Muslims, Hindus, Jews, or whatever they are. You have to look at the arguments and evidences for Jesus's existence and Muhammad's existence individually instead simply projecting your opinions from one case to another. That being said, I do believe in the existence of Jesus and that he was a Prophet as well although many things about him may not be true.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

What Christians think or say doesn't necessarily have to mean that the same goes for the claims of another group of people whether they are Muslims

Agreed in principle. However, however,with respect Rayaan,I think that is a little disingenuous. A great many Muslims, all over world get murderously angry if anyone dares to suggest any part of the Qur'an is not the word of god.

As far as this book is concerned,I have not read it. Absence of evidence is actually evidence of absence. What it is not is PROOF of absence.My perception is that Muhammud probably existed. He may have believed God revealed the Qur'am to him,which he then recited to be written down because he was illiterate. That's all I'm able to accept.

As with the historical existence of Jesus, I consider the existence of Muhammud became irrelevant as soon as dogma was established.

[Minimalist]

You say that as if whatever Christians say about Jesus automatically means the same thing concerning what Muslims say about Muhammad, but that is unreasonable.

Your evidence for mohammad is remarkably similar to theirs for jesus. What this fellow is pointing out is that there is no evidence from the time he allegedly lived which indicates that any such person existed. Jesus suffers from the same dearth of evidence....regardless of the drivel fundies spew about "eyewitnesses" and other such crap.