Messengers/Message

[Ziploc Surprise]

The beggar's name is obviously Elijah. Any proper christian would know this.

I am not necessarily providing the links below for consumption, but as demonstration of how common the beggar as an angel in disguise motif is.

http://www.watkinsbooks.com/review/a-true-holiday-story
http://www.ibelieveinangels.com/Angel-St...eggar.html
http://www.spiritdaily.net/beggarsangel.htm
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/7987...-emissary/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/yimcatholic...angel.html

Thank you for posting. If you only knew how many times I've heard a rendition of this story. It kinda makes me want to puke.

[Angrboda]

Angels have become a popular underground part of Christian theology just like Mary worship.

I don't see any details in this story that can either be confirmed, or are unlike any of the thousands of such stories. Can you say, "priming." How do you know you didn't dream this, or that many of the details weren't added after the event, by your faulty memory process, your desire to believe, and the stories you've drenched your brain in. If any of this happened -- doubtful -- it sounds like you were conned by a smooth talking, cold reading black con artist; you probably gave him a wad of cash, and later adjusted the story to reconcile your cognitive dissonance about being such a sap. It happens all the time. People like Drich will say, "well, if it had been a con, I would have known it was a con"; no you wouldn't, that's what makes it a con. And of course, adding the detail that the guy was black shows you where Drich's heart is at. Faith Healers pull these sort of cons on the credulous all the time. And just because you meet him at a ready-mart is no sign you aren't the target of a well-played con. But of course, we won't ever know, because your subconscious has rewritten your memory for you. Welcome to the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and personal anecdote.

Got any evidence? Did you have a video recorder? No? You were so astounded by the experience, yet you don't even remember the guy's name. If it had been that unusual, you'd have remembered the name. Since you didn't, it makes sense to suspect the "special parts" got added later. How does it feel to know the mind is unreliable, and therefore all your personal witnessing doesn't amount to crap?

[FallentoReason]

Angels have become a popular underground part of Christian theology just like Mary worship.

I don't see any details in this story that can either be confirmed, or are unlike any of the thousands of such stories. Can you say, "priming." How do you know you didn't dream this, or that many of the details weren't added after the event, by your faulty memory process, your desire to believe, and the stories you've drenched your brain in. If any of this happened -- doubtful -- it sounds like you were conned by a smooth talking, cold reading black con artist; you probably gave him a wad of cash, and later adjusted the story to reconcile your cognitive dissonance about being such a sap. It happens all the time. People like Drich will say, "well, if it had been a con, I would have known it was a con"; no you wouldn't, that's what makes it a con. And of course, adding the detail that the guy was black shows you where Drich's heart is at. Faith Healers pull these sort of cons on the credulous all the time. And just because you meet him at a ready-mart is no sign you aren't the target of a well-played con. But of course, we won't ever know, because your subconscious has rewritten your memory for you. Welcome to the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and personal anecdote.

Got any evidence? Did you have a video recorder? No? You were so astounded by the experience, yet you don't even remember the guy's name. If it had been that unusual, you'd have remembered the name. Since you didn't, it makes sense to suspect the "special parts" got added later. How does it feel to know the mind is unreliable, and therefore all your personal witnessing doesn't amount to crap?

Because this was one person's experience, there is nothing objective that we can discuss. As you have shown, all we can do is speculate about what might or might not have happened, but what's the point really...

[Epimethean]

Er, because he may well be employing it to generate an emotional response for the purpose of garnering some sympathy or at least a lessening of the drubbing he's been taking in other threads. Then, too, it could simply be to draw other christians to his side. Either way, coming at this remove from the proper time to make an introduction which might have contained this, it smacks of disingenuity or a heightened state of self-delusion.

[FallentoReason]

Er, because he may well be employing it to generate an emotional response for the purpose of garnering some sympathy or at least a lessening of the drubbing he's been taking in other threads. Then, too, it could simply be to draw other christians to his side. Either way, coming at this remove from the proper time to make an introduction which might have contained this, it smacks of disingenuity or a heightened state of self-delusion.

So, again, all we can do is now speculate what his motives might be, but what good is that? Take it for what it is; a subjective experience. What can we do with it? Nothing but sit back and listen to a different walk of life share a part of his life.

I personally don't see any objective things that could be discussed to prove or disprove certain things. We don't even have two subjective accounts that could provide at least some way of filtering things. None of us were there, so what is there to discuss?

[Epimethean]

So when a guy tells you that the car you are buying from him was once driven by Johnny Depp, you should just go ahead an pay the premium he claims that adds to the value of the vehicle?

[FallentoReason]

So when a guy tells you that the car you are buying from him was once driven by Johnny Depp, you should just go ahead an pay the premium he claims that adds to the value of the vehicle?

I would say 'show me some evidence'. Why does Drich's story require that demand though? Unlike your example, his story doesn't involve me in any way.

[Drich]

Angels have become a popular underground part of Christian theology just like Mary worship.

I don't see any details in this story that can either be confirmed, or are unlike any of the thousands of such stories. Can you say, "priming." How do you know you didn't dream this, or that many of the details weren't added after the event, by your faulty memory process, your desire to believe, and the stories you've drenched your brain in. If any of this happened -- doubtful -- it sounds like you were conned by a smooth talking, cold reading black con artist; you probably gave him a wad of cash, and later adjusted the story to reconcile your cognitive dissonance about being such a sap. It happens all the time. People like Drich will say, "well, if it had been a con, I would have known it was a con"; no you wouldn't, that's what makes it a con. And of course, adding the detail that the guy was black shows you where Drich's heart is at. Faith Healers pull these sort of cons on the credulous all the time. And just because you meet him at a ready-mart is no sign you aren't the target of a well-played con. But of course, we won't ever know, because your subconscious has rewritten your memory for you. Welcome to the unreliability of eyewitness testimony and personal anecdote.

Got any evidence? Did you have a video recorder? No? You were so astounded by the experience, yet you don't even remember the guy's name. If it had been that unusual, you'd have remembered the name. Since you didn't, it makes sense to suspect the "special parts" got added later. How does it feel to know the mind is unreliable, and therefore all your personal witnessing doesn't amount to crap?

I gave the guy 2 dollars when we parted ways, and wrote the story down as soon as I got to a place I could do so. Why because He gave me so many future events to look after I wanted to see if they would come true.

Not knowing or remembering names is a big all around weakness of mine as I do not associeate people or places with titles, but with pictures or descriptions. Besides one or two of you I have no idea of who said what or believe what, simply be telling me a screen name. But if I see a picture I can identify you and the depth of your belief. That is why I was able to give a complete description of what He looked like.

I hired a guy and he worked with us for two weeks before I could remember his name. (It happened to be the day he got his uniforms) Point being is not every mind works as your does.

[Norfolk And Chance]

So when a guy tells you that the car you are buying from him was once driven by Johnny Depp, you should just go ahead an pay the premium he claims that adds to the value of the vehicle?

I would say 'show me some evidence'. Why does Drich's story require that demand though? Unlike your example, his story doesn't involve me in any way.

After reading some of your recent posts I'm getting a horrible feeling about the way you're starting to head.

[Epimethean]

So when a guy tells you that the car you are buying from him was once driven by Johnny Depp, you should just go ahead an pay the premium he claims that adds to the value of the vehicle?

I would say 'show me some evidence'. Why does Drich's story require that demand though? Unlike your example, his story doesn't involve me in any way.

Perhaps when I read the words of a fellow forum member and sense utter rubbish, I am more prone to feeling cheated than some.