Antinatalism

[goddamnit]

Theoretically substantiating a moral principle is nearly impossible, if even possible at all. Not everyone agrees in what the word "moral" means and nihilism can be argued. But think about what nihilism is if we truly embrace it and act on it in practice: sociopathy. So, the point is, for this thread, I admit I will be appealing to your subjective whims and sort of assuming premises as axioms that I did not theoretically substantiate. For example, I might assume that stabbing kind and happy people with a fork only for recreational purposes is "immoral," although I acknowledge that it is theoretically difficult to substantiate that assumption.

I think procreation is immoral. It means bringing a consciousness into existence that could potentially intensely suffer most of its life, whether that be physical (nerve problems) or mental (major depression). People who hate their lives are often too scared to commit suicide or would feel guilty knowing it causes a parent or other person pain. Is it fair to take a colossal gamble at the risk of tormented consciousness that is not your own?

[Tobie]

Theoretically substantiating a moral principle is nearly impossible, if even possible at all. Not everyone agrees in what the word "moral" means and nihilism can be argued. But think about what nihilism is if we truly embrace it and act on it in practice: sociopathy. So, the point is, for this thread, I admit I will be appealing to your subjective whims and sort of assuming premises as axioms that I did not theoretically substantiate. For example, I might assume that stabbing kind and happy people with a fork only for recreational purposes is "immoral," although I acknowledge that it is theoretically difficult to substantiate that assumption.

I think procreation is immoral. It means bringing a consciousness into existence that could potentially intensely suffer most of its life, whether that be physical (nerve problems) or mental (major depression). People who hate their lives are often too scared to commit suicide or would feel guilty knowing it causes a parent or other person pain. Is it fair to take a colossal gamble at the risk of tormented consciousness that is not your own?

I don't think procreation is immoral. The statistical likelihood that a child will have any problems upon birth is slim, so you are more likely to have a healthy baby. What I do think is a harder decision is whether or not to procreate if you know you are a carrier for a genetic disease.

On another note, embracing nihilism fully is not sociopathical. Sociopathy is a mental disorder ( a branch of anti-social behavioral disorder ) so they have no choice but to do what they do, whereas you'd still think like a normal person but be analyzing everything from a nihilist viewpoint.

[goddamnit]

Does the fact that a bad outcome has a low probability negate the principle of taking a risk that weighs heavily on someone else? For example, suppose you built a gigantic revolver/gun that holds 100 bullets in the thing that spins. (I don't know much about gun parts, so forgive the terminology.) Similar to Russia roulette, you put a single bullet in and there is only a 1% chance it will shoot the bullet after spinning the circular part of the revolver. Now, in this example, you aim the gun at someone else's leg (who did not agree to it) and pull the trigger. If the person does not get shot, you give them $1,000. If it shoots them, you rush them to the hospital. The likelihood of another individual suffering is small, but it does not make it right to take a risk where someone else suffers if it goes wrong.

[frankiej]

Similar to Russia roulette, you put a single bullet in and there is only a 1% chance it will shoot the bullet after spinning the circular part of the revolver.

Well, that can't be right...

[Tempus]

The motivation to have children is always a selfish one, in my opinion. It's all about the prospective parents' desires to see their line continue or fulfil some need or dream foisted upon them by family, society, or natural urges. There's no conceivable (boom-tish) way that having a child can be for the child's sake before it even exists. These people bring children into the world simply because "I've always wanted a little girl!" - what? You've always wanted? Nobody gives a damn what you want. Can you provide for this child? Are you intelligent enough to raise a critical thinker? Have you considered the society you're planning to raise them in? Have you considered that if everyone got their dream job that the world would cease to function? Most parents don't seem to give a fuck about that.

I remember I used to think it was a good idea to sterilize certain people. Then again, I used think euthanasing certain elements in society (including my obnoxious neighbours) was a good idea too. While I eventually decided that freedom was much better than imposition, it's still tempting to just say "sterilize these useless imbeciles".

[Welsh cake]

I think procreation is a selfish act, rather than an immoral one.

Take most young people in this country for example, they have kids simply to get on welfare and expect the taxpayers to pay for their children. Its disgusting.

[Epimethean]

It may be selfish, but it is still necessary, albeit at a lower level than many allow to happen.

[Angrboda]

I think procreation is immoral. It means bringing a consciousness into existence that could potentially intensely suffer most of its life, whether that be physical (nerve problems) or mental (major depression). People who hate their lives are often too scared to commit suicide or would feel guilty knowing it causes a parent or other person pain. Is it fair to take a colossal gamble at the risk of tormented consciousness that is not your own?

Like the song says, "You cannot win if you do not play."

[The Grand Nudger]

What I do think is a harder decision is whether or not to procreate if you know you are a carrier for a genetic disease.

Even this is a rough one, speaking only from a procreative standpoint, who gives a shit? -Alive and diseased- is better than -not alive-...and that's ignoring the potential for "beating this or that".

-hehe, Apo..game theory applied to life ftw!

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I think procreation is immoral.

Fine, so don't breed

My priest used to tell me masturbation is a grave sin.I thought he was an idiot too.