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What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 9:55 am
Ladies and bruces,
I have a question about atheism.
As we know, being an atheist doesn't imply anything. It just means that someone doesn't believe in god (any god).
But is this true? Can you be an atheist and anything you like (except a believer in god, of course).
It seems to me, that you have to be a materialist and therefore can't be an idealist. (maybe in constructivist epistemology, but I'd doubt that)
(True/Untrue?)
If this is true, how do you deal with Hume's "is-ought problem" and naturalistic fallacies?
(David Hume
could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel)
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 10:18 am
(July 6, 2012 at 9:55 am)Metonymie Wrote: Ladies and bruces,
I have a question about atheism.
As we know, being an atheist doesn't imply anything. It just means that someone doesn't believe in god (any god).
But is this true? Can you be an atheist and anything you like (except a believer in god, of course).
It seems to me, that you have to be a materialist and therefore can't be an idealist. (maybe in constructivist epistemology, but I'd doubt that)
(True/Untrue?)
If this is true, how do you deal with Hume's "is-ought problem" and naturalistic fallacies?
(David Hume
could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel)
I'm somewhat interested in this line of questioning, because you see a certain collection of Christians arguing very loudly that denying God means rejecting things like objective moral values, etc.
I'm inclined to think that as long as the axioms of your belief system are consistent (do not entail contradiction), then it's a valid belief system. So, for example, Joe the Philosopher might only have this one belief: "Triangles exist as immaterial objects."
Now, unless this somehow entails the existence of God, it seems to be that Joe is an atheist, and something of a Platonist. QED.
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 10:24 am
(July 6, 2012 at 9:55 am)Metonymie Wrote: Ladies and bruces,
I have a question about atheism.
As we know, being an atheist doesn't imply anything. It just means that someone doesn't believe in god (any god).
But is this true? Can you be an atheist and anything you like (except a believer in god, of course).
It seems to me, that you have to be a materialist and therefore can't be an idealist. (maybe in constructivist epistemology, but I'd doubt that)
(True/Untrue?)
If this is true, how do you deal with Hume's "is-ought problem" and naturalistic fallacies?
(David Hume
could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel)
An atheist is someone who does not believe in god. Atheists tend to be as moral as everyone else (seeing as morality does not come from religion), some atheists do have some spiritual beliefs, even in some afterlife and the like. Atheists are like everyone else except for the fact that they don't believe in god or god's. Is that simple. A lack of theism. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 10:30 am
@ Ace
Thanks for explaining the second sentence I wrote:
Quote:As we know, being an atheist doesn't imply anything. It just means that someone doesn't believe in god (any god).
@ Clive
QED?
What do you mean? I don't get it.
You mean, because an atheist can't be a platonist? I'd agree.
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 10:49 am
(July 6, 2012 at 10:30 am)Metonymie Wrote: @ Clive
QED?
What do you mean? I don't get it.
You mean, because an atheist can't be a platonist? I'd agree.
Erm, no. My point was that Joe is an atheist, and believes that triangles exist as immaterial objects, which is similar to Plato's notion of Forms. I don't see a contradiction there.
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 11:20 am
(This post was last modified: July 6, 2012 at 11:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Psychic phenomena, Bigfoot, the Lock Ness monster, fairies, magic, and homeopathic remedies are not gods, ergo fair game. Atheists who may believe in any of these things deal with any issues related to logic or reason in the same way that all issues related to logic/reason and belief are dealt with, which is to say...not at all.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 11:32 am
(July 6, 2012 at 10:49 am)CliveStaples Wrote: (July 6, 2012 at 10:30 am)Metonymie Wrote: @ Clive
QED?
What do you mean? I don't get it.
You mean, because an atheist can't be a platonist? I'd agree.
Erm, no. My point was that Joe is an atheist, and believes that triangles exist as immaterial objects, which is similar to Plato's notion of Forms. I don't see a contradiction there.
Ahh
I see what you mean.
But I'd say it depends on how you define "exist".
Plato thought that the material world was fake and that there was a higher level of existence. I don't think that an atheist can believe that and still call himself an atheist with intellectual integrity. He could still not believe in god, of course. But he couldn't come up with a convincing argument for his position.
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 11:34 am
I've met atheists who believe in astrology, ghosts, and reincarnation. They don't believe in any Gods though; so they are dualists and still atheists. I don't think their dualist beliefs are reasonable; but since atheism isn't defined as not being a dualist (adualism?), I can't deny they are atheists.
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 11:34 am
(July 6, 2012 at 11:32 am)Metonymie Wrote: Ahh
I see what you mean.
But I'd say it depends on how you define "exist".
Plato thought that the material world was fake and that there was a higher level of existence. I don't think that an atheist can believe that and still call himself an atheist with intellectual integrity. He could still not believe in god, of course. But he couldn't come up with a convincing argument for his position.
Uh, why? Atheists don't have to be evidentialists or naturalists. They just have to not believe "At least one god exists". They can believe that you should only believe claims for which there is no evidence; they can be nihilists, and believe nothing. They can believe that the material world is real, but the Astral Plane is even realer, and that's where unicorns and fairies live.
As long as they don't believe in the existence of any gods, they're atheists.
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
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RE: What do you have to be?
July 6, 2012 at 12:19 pm
(July 6, 2012 at 11:34 am)CliveStaples Wrote: (July 6, 2012 at 11:32 am)Metonymie Wrote: Ahh
I see what you mean.
But I'd say it depends on how you define "exist".
Plato thought that the material world was fake and that there was a higher level of existence. I don't think that an atheist can believe that and still call himself an atheist with intellectual integrity. He could still not believe in god, of course. But he couldn't come up with a convincing argument for his position.
Uh, why? Atheists don't have to be evidentialists or naturalists. They just have to not believe "At least one god exists". They can believe that you should only believe claims for which there is no evidence; they can be nihilists, and believe nothing. They can believe that the material world is real, but the Astral Plane is even realer, and that's where unicorns and fairies live.
As long as they don't believe in the existence of any gods, they're atheists.
That's true, of course. But it is not what I was up to.
I mean if you'd claim "I think, there is no god" it would have further implications. If you'd say, for example, "I think there is no god, but I think there is an ultimate truth" (idealistic) you couldn't argue against god, because god is part of an idealistic worldview, too. You could only argue in your idealistic system and propably wouldn't get a result (except, of course, "I believe", "I favour"...)
Therefore, I think, an atheist can't be an idealist and has to be a materialist (If he/she is interested in creating a worldview full of integrity).
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