Stop me from chasing religion, for the love of G- oh...

[KichigaiNeko]

[FallentoReason]

I'm not looking for proof from either side; I've investigated all the proof I care for. What this comes down to is really faith -- what do I, given the evidence before me, think actually happened? And, given that answer, how, then, do I live?

i think this right here is the beginning of the end of your fence-sitting chapter. Answer your own question: what can you say actually happened, in your personal opinion? You should lead your life according to your answer of this question.

[Angrboda]

As a Taoist, I have my own responses to the question of meaning and nihilism (as well as psychological ones), but the best response I've heard from the atheist perspective is this. Theists are given to ask atheists how they can keep going if their life has no ultimate meaning. To that question, the atheist points out that we have enduring relationships and marriages, and these don't last forever either. Does that make our experience of them and loving relationships an empty experience? No, of course not. We have family we grew up with, does the fact that we eventually have to move away cheapen our childhoods? I don't think so. The fact that something is temporary, limited, or only relative to us, these do not make it meaningless.

This is a recurring theme, and not being personally afflicted with it, I haven't thought overly deeply about it. To me, intuitively, worrying about nihilism seems silly, though I suspect I too had such thoughts when I was younger. Perhaps it's just a form of anxiety: a fear of an unknown danger. And that would make sense for you, given your mental history, as anxiety is a common symptom of OCD and depression. And I don't know that I have anything more helpful to add on that score.


As to your addiction to religion, some of that appears tinged with obsession and anxiety as well. As noted elsewhere, I've gone through periods lasting several weeks in which Buddhism was of great importance, and I would buy lots of books and read and meditate, then one day, "poof," it would be gone, and I would be my normal self again. As a word of caution, take everything I say with a grain of salt, as I'm not a professional; if something I say strikes a chord, discuss it with a professional before acting on it. It does sound though, like as much as the content is worrisome, which I can understand, but the obsessive and anxious way it takes control of your life seems to be the more troublesome part of the equation. I'm very religious myself, but I'm quite detached about such things, likely constitutionally; I believe religious things, but not in the intense, "I gotta find an answer! Now!" kind of way. Regardless, I suspect you're hurting yourself more than other people. You can be an atheist and be a good person, but religious people can be good people, too. As long as you're not doing bad things, I wouldn't worry about the toggling; change is what people do. You just seem to do it more intensely, and perhaps frequently.

Carl Jung once said that good advice is doubtful remedy, it's a good thing it's so seldom followed. If this behavior which troubles you is a consequence of your mental state, this advice will likely not result in improvement; though if so, perhaps in consultation with professionals, you can develop ways of managing it. If this is not an abnormality, then I'd suggest letting yourself relax and enjoy the ride. There's nothing wrong with being religious as a hobby, so long as it doesn't lead you to do bad things. (I recall a conversation with a gentleman on the chairlift when I was skiing one day, and I was explaining about how I was trying to correct some flaws in my form. As he exited the lift, his advice to me was, "Fuck form, have fun." I didn't take the advice well at the time, either, but some of us --->me<--- have a tendency to make everything very serious; as a matter of fact, that's one aspect about religious belief that I hypothesize that we choose religions which encourage us to act in ways which are hard for us to do naturally. Thus my Taoism helps me concentrate on becoming strong at things I'm naturally weak at.)

And in regards not taking things so seriously, I find that many people have a great problem with the answer, "I don't know." Granted, yours may be a little something else, but many people haven't learned to be comfortable with simply not knowing. In an argument, people will flail about madly in an effort to avoid having to admit they simply don't know. (And I've encountered numerous ad hoc explanations of religion from atheists that could have used a healthy shot in the arm of, "I don't know.") "I don't know is the very foundation of science and skepticism (and philosophy); there is nothing inherently bad about not knowing. However, our culture, and likely our evolved psychology, teach us differently. Again, this may be especially hard for you, but try to learn to be at peace with not knowing.

There's also a book I'd like to recommend, though as with anything else, it's advisable to use it in consultation with a professional (specifically one who offers CBT). The book is by David Burns, M.D. It sounds dopey, but it's actually a very good book. The bulk of the book consists of exercises based on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) which you can use to, over the course of time, teach your brain/mind better ways to respond to triggering thoughts or stimulii which provoke anxious, depressed or other unhealthy thought patterns in response to the stimulii.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Welcome!

[Kayenneh]

Hi and welcome to AF! ^_^

How to live as an atheist? The first step for me was to acknowledge how insignificant I am. To shred the last vestiges and illusions of that I actually have control over my life. At first it felt a little bit scary, but after that it got a lot easier. I am able to determine what matters to me, no one needs to dictate what I should like. I don't have to put it into perspective to the cosmos, if I like going out on a Saturday night and see my friends, I'm entitled to enjoy it. As long as I don't break the laws of my country and I minimize the harm I could potentially do to others, then everything is allowed. All I like and what I find entertaining, amusing or interesting is insignificant on a larger scale, but it makes my life have meaning. That's the beauty of it, you have to be comfortable and happy with your life. For even though your life is such a small part of the universe, it's your life to live.

[Norfolk And Chance]

The pointlessness of life is not an issue for me, why must it have a point?

Just live it.

[Faith No More]

Living as an atheist has never been very difficult for me, because even before I had decided that I didn't believe in god, god was not a source of meaning in my life. Admittedly, in my teens I suffered from depression mainly fueled by existential question that could have easily been solved by giving myself to one religion or another, but I was raised to seek the truth, which none of the religions seemed to offer. After a series of hardships in my twenties, I started searching for god in the hopes that there would be a comsic explanation for what I was going through. I didn't want to believe that what I had seen and been through was simply random circumstances. I wanted to believe that there was a deeper meaning, and that a god was trying to teach me or tell me something with what I had been through. Alas, no god ever showed itself to me, and finally I accepted that life was not driven by divine fate.

In a way, I think I am a much stronger person for dealing with my problems head on instead of simply going the easy route with a belief in god. I made it through without a deity, which gave me the strength to accept that there are things in life beyond my control. Relgion is a way of exerting control over a chaotic, indifferent universe. Accepting the reality of this, however, is liberating, and it allows you to truly focus on what you do have control over. Understanding what I am and am not able to control is what allows me to be an atheist.

[Simon Moon]

So I ask you, how do you live with being an atheist? How do you prevent yourself from turning to superstition? How does the atheist attain solace with a neutral, uncaring universe? These are not "bait" questions. I really have yet to hear from an atheist on these matters.

Simple for me. I care whether my beliefs are true, or at least likely to be true.

The single best way to achieve that is to base them on demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument.

You seem to want to base your beliefs on some sort of feeling you hope to get out of them.

I think the main reason why I keep teetering towards religion is because I'm scared shitless of a world without a God or a purpose. It's easy to mask my failures and shortcomings with the idea that "everything is happening as it should be." But if I really am the master of my own fate -- holy shit, that's scary. That's not something I think I can handle. But if that's the case, well, I'm gonna have to do something.

Reality doesn't care what you believe. If you want to be comforted by beliefs that are not based in reality, have at it.

I'm not looking for proof from either side; I've investigated all the proof I care for. What this comes down to is really faith -- what do I, given the evidence before me, think actually happened? And, given that answer, how, then, do I live?

Faith is the excuse people give themselves when they can't provide evidence or reasoned argument to support their beliefs.

Faith is NOT another source of knowledge.

Base your beliefs on faith if you chose, just know that your beliefs are almost assuredly false.

[jonb]

What possible point to life is there if there is a god? The point is to please the big fella? Every single thing is just to please him, that is no rational reason for existence. There is no point in a god existing. but I as an absurdist think there maybe a way of constructing a point, but there probably isn't sit back have a drink relax.