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God is a consequentialist
#1
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God is a consequentialist
There's a popular defense of the existence of evil and suffering from apologists. You can read Craig argue this. Basically it's not "logically possible" to make a world in which there are no free beings who won't sin. Sin of course leads to suffering. They argue then that God is still good for making a world with sinners and suffering because he made the "best possible world" among all the possible worlds he could make. The world we're in now has the least amount of suffering and sinners. Hell is the smallest it could be (conceivably, there might have been another world in which everyone went to hell but God didn't make that).

What does this mean? Well, God's a consequentialist. Apparently it's ok for God to create a world that leads to suffering and people being in hell for eternity if it can be justified by the consequences.

If I were God, and I was limited (ha!) in such a way, I would not have created anything, even if I could have created a world in which just only one being went to hell. I'd be self-sufficient anyway so I wouldn't need to create anything in the first place.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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#2
RE: God is a consequentialist
When you talk to people, and socialize, isn't there something magical about the whole choice factor and living in this world with all it's problems? Everywhere, no matter how bad things are, friendships are formed...and people have a bond, and get to know people, people whom will have an impact on their personality. Life is a rich experience, no matter how much we suffer. Even the relationship of the little children with one another in Africa trying to survive is a magical thing. Endless peace in the future, was this life worth it? Was developing personality in this world worth the trouble. I think it is. Life no matter how bad it is, is good.

As for hell, while I don't believe in it, Christians and Muslims see it as a necessary act of God's justice. This contradicts the loving merciful side they like to portray but that's another discussion. God knowing the future has many problems (why create evil people when you have infinite potential good people to create for example), but that's another discussion.
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#3
RE: God is a consequentialist
(September 11, 2012 at 10:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: When you talk to people, and socialize, isn't there something magical about the whole choice factor and living in this world with all it's problems? Everywhere, no matter how bad things are, friendships are formed...and people have a bond, and get to know people, people whom will have an impact on their personality. Life is a rich experience, no matter how much we suffer. Even the relationship of the little children with one another in Africa trying to survive is a magical thing. Endless peace in the future, was this life worth it? Was developing personality in this world worth the trouble. I think it is. Life no matter how bad it is, is good.

As for hell, while I don't believe in it, Christians and Muslims see it as a necessary act of God's justice. This contradicts the loving merciful side they like to portray but that's another discussion. God knowing the future has many problems (why create evil people when you have infinite potential good people to create for example), but that's another discussion.
I don't see what difference it makes whether the universe exists or not. If we didn't exist, we wouldn't be locked away in some non-existing state wishing "oh, if only I could exist." There would be nothing to regret since there is no one to regret anything.

As for suffering and pain..that might not pose as big of a problem for deists as yourself since you don't believe in hell. Most Christians though believe in hell whether it be literal lake of fire or some sort of "annihilation."
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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