Hare Krishna

[Whateverist]

We're working on the premise that life is a product of dumb energy, right? So when someone dies, there's just been some type of chemical reaction. Someone should be able to reverse that, right?

Why should anyone be able to reverse that? Where does this idea come from? Yeah life happens and it ends. These complex chemicals actually do replicate and life goes on. But individuals end. You can hope gods give you a wild card alternative but that surely does seem a little weird.

After all, if you think it odd that life just came about through dumb energy, how much more weird must it be to imagine dumb energy giving rise to magical beings who in turn create life? Why the middle man? If you have no explanation for what gives rise to magical beings, why offer them as an explanation for what gives rise to the life we actually encounter on this planet? Doesn't work for me.

[Tino]

I do believe in God very deeply, and have committed my life very seriously to trying to worship God.

Why does Krishna require worship?

[Akincana Krishna dasa]

Why do you think any matter is dumb? Even the tiniest particles contain everything they need to do amazing things. You might think a virus is dumb, but it contains DNA or RNA that can change human evolution! You can't even view it with a typical microscope.

Now, if you are going to call little bits of matter dumb, then yes, we can "create" things out of "dumb matter." Ever heard of cloning? If that is not enough for you, don't worry. It's not enough for me, either. Still beats the immortal magician theory.

---

If life is just a combination of stuff on the periodic table of elements (dumb matter), why can't anyone create life? Or stop old age and death? Or bring dead people back to life?

Ah, I see. You think elements are dumb. Well, we can slow old age and death. Doctors stop death all the time. Bringing dead people back to life . . well, that's a dumb one. Sorry. Dead is dead. If it makes you feel better, God doesn't bring people back to life, either.

The thing of it is, you expect people to do in a few years what nature has done over millions of them. That's a little unfair. Surely illogical. You think that not being able to create life after only a few decades or centuries of serious medical advances, thanks to tools like microscopes and lasers, we should have to create life to prove that God does not exist? Give us a few million years and watch what happens.

The bottom line is that, like other believers in the Biblical God, you are asking the wrong questions. Too often these questions reveal an ignorance of the subject matter or a blatant dismissal of obvious facts, such as the difference between a few hundred or even a few thousand years and hundreds of millions of years.

Hmmm, the best argument you've got is: "Wait a few million years! I'm sure by then we'll prove you wrong!"

Really? I should be sure of that? That's really a great argument?

Tell me what the right questions are, please.

---

I do believe in God very deeply, and have committed my life very seriously to trying to worship God.

Why does Krishna require worship?

Who said He "requires" worship? I said I'm trying to worship Krishna. It's something I like to do.

---

We're working on the premise that life is a product of dumb energy, right? So when someone dies, there's just been some type of chemical reaction. Someone should be able to reverse that, right?

Why should anyone be able to reverse that? Where does this idea come from? Yeah life happens and it ends. These complex chemicals actually do replicate and life goes on. But individuals end. You can hope gods give you a wild card alternative but that surely does seem a little weird.

After all, if you think it odd that life just came about through dumb energy, how much more weird must it be to imagine dumb energy giving rise to magical beings who in turn create life? Why the middle man? If you have no explanation for what gives rise to magical beings, why offer them as an explanation for what gives rise to the life we actually encounter on this planet? Doesn't work for me.

Life happens and it ends... ok, yeah, but why? And what if I don't feel like getting old, getting sick, and dying? Taking the premise that life is the evolution of chance combinations of chemicals, why would death be a given?

Your second paragraph makes very little sense to me. The point is: Is there consciousness and intelligence at the core of reality, or isn't there? We're not talking about magical beings. We're talking about the foundation of existence. Is it just physics and chemistry? If so, how do you get life out of physics and chemistry?

OR is life at the foundation of reality itself?

[Tino]

Who said He "requires" worship?

I'm under the impression that your religion teaches that worship of Krishna is required to know Krishna, that the more you worship him, the more he reveals. But truth can simply be taught and knowledge can simply be given, without worship. So the question again, why does Krishna require worship?

[Akincana Krishna dasa]

Who said He "requires" worship?

I'm under the impression that your religion teaches that worship of Krishna is required to know Krishna, that the more you worship him, the more he reveals. But truth can simply be taught and knowledge can simply be given, without worship. So the question again, why does Krishna require worship?

There's theoretical knowledge, and experiential knowledge. I can know about Krishna through a book, but that's not the same as meeting Him and spending time with Him.

[Tino]

I'm under the impression that your religion teaches that worship of Krishna is required to know Krishna, that the more you worship him, the more he reveals. But truth can simply be taught and knowledge can simply be given, without worship. So the question again, why does Krishna require worship?

There's theoretical knowledge, and experiential knowledge. I can know about Krishna through a book, but that's not the same as meeting Him and spending time with Him.

Are you saying that worship is required to meet him and spend time with him? If not, please address my question. If so, again, why is worship required to do so? You've committed your life to this, so I assume there's a good reason.

[Akincana Krishna dasa]

There's theoretical knowledge, and experiential knowledge. I can know about Krishna through a book, but that's not the same as meeting Him and spending time with Him.

Are you saying that worship is required to meet him and spend time with him? If not, please address my question. If so, again, why is worship required to do so? You've committed your life to this, so I assume there's a good reason.

What I thought you were asking initially is if Krishna needs me to worship Him - like He'll go broke or hungry if I don't pay my bills to Him or something. But it's not like that. Krishna is supreme and independent.

The only thing required to meet Krishna's is His will. If Krishna wants to reveal Himself to you, then you can really know Him. Otherwise not.

Like I can really get to know you if you want to share yourself with me.

[Angrboda]

"The stupid is strong in this one. But we will break her yet!"



And btw, for what it's worth, consciousness just texted me and she wants you all to know that the reports of her intelligence have been greatly exaggerated.

[Tino]

What I thought you were asking initially is if Krishna needs me to worship Him - like He'll go broke or hungry if I don't pay my bills to Him or something. But it's not like that. Krishna is supreme and independent.

But apparently he has some need that causes him to demand worship in return for revealing more knowledge. If it were money to live or food to eat I'd understand it. Since it's not, I have to ask why worship is required.

The only thing required to meet Krishna's is His will.

I'm assuming that this means that you'll meet him if he wants it to happen? Please avoid religious-speak if you can.

If Krishna wants to reveal Himself to you, then you can really know Him. Otherwise not.

Like I can really get to know you if you want to share yourself with me.

Yes but I don't require that you worship me. Why does Krishna?

[Akincana Krishna dasa]

Yes but I don't require that you worship me. Why does Krishna?

Worship of Krishna is the eternal dharma (duty or function) of the soul.

The Supreme Lord is the supreme enjoyer, and we living entities are His servitors. We are created for His enjoyment, and if we participate in that eternal enjoyment with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we can become happy.