Giraffe evolution

[Hughsie]

My Dad is a creationist and he always points to the giraffe's neck as something that is irreducible complex. Apparently it has some special system to get blood all the way to the top.

Anyone able to debunk this for me in reasonably simple terms?

[Kayenneh]

Giraffes with longer necks reached food that no other giraffe did. Long neck reaches better and gets more nutrition, has greater stamina, is more likely to reproduce, thus breeding more giraffes with even longer necks. Simple as that.

[Nine]

My Dad is a creationist and he always points to the giraffe's neck as something that is irreducible complex. Apparently it has some special system to get blood all the way to the top.

Anyone able to debunk this for me in reasonably simple terms?

Does he believe in the noah story? If so ask him how they fit it in the arc. They couldn't have been on the deck seems it was pissing it down for over a month and they would have been very pissed off and a bit dead.

[Hughsie]

Does he believe in the noah story? If so ask him how they fit it in the arc. They couldn't have been on the deck seems it was pissing it down for over a month and they would have been very pissed off and a bit dead.

He's an odd creationist.

I don't think he ascribes to a particular religion. He just says he thinks believing that all life came about via evolution requires more faith than believing there was some type of creator.

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Giraffes with longer necks reached food that no other giraffe did. Long neck reaches better and gets more nutrition, has greater stamina, is more likely to reproduce, thus breeding more giraffes with even longer necks. Simple as that.

I get that bit, but how did the specialised and complex blood pumping system come about? He thinks that bit is irreducibly complex.

[popeyespappy]

Ask him about the laryngeal nerve then show him this.

[Nine]

I get that bit, but how did the specialised and complex blood pumping system come about? He thinks that bit is irreducibly complex.

I remember watching a documentary about giraffes they do have quite a spectacular system to keep the blood flow to their heads right.

Maybe you could find something vestigial that they have from evolution. Show him that and see how he would explain it.

[Something completely different]

Here is a link to a very detailed explaination of the evolution of the giraffs neck by biologist Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig. luckyly it is in english.

http://www.weloennig.de/Giraffe.pdf

[Kayenneh]

I get that bit, but how did the specialised and complex blood pumping system come about? He thinks that bit is irreducibly complex.

Ah, fair enough. The thing is, it evolved in pace with the neck of course. A lot of individuals would have perished, because their cardiovascular system wasn't good enough. But as the neck grew, the individuals with a strong ticker would have had a better chance to breed, thus being able to pass on the trait to their offspring.

[Darkstar]

Giraffes with longer necks reached food that no other giraffe did. Long neck reaches better and gets more nutrition, has greater stamina, is more likely to reproduce, thus breeding more giraffes with even longer necks. Simple as that.

I get the feeling that creationists will either try to claim that it must evolve fully in one step, or, when proven wrong, will deny the usefullness of a not fully evolved part. This video explains why even partially evolved parts, ones that may not even function in the way the fully evolved one does, can still be useful enough to be evolved in.

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[Red Celt]

The idea that a giraffe's neck is long in order to reach the top of trees has been debunked. They reach down to eat the leaves that are fresher at the bottom of the trees.

The best estimations are that the necks allow for a better view of predators, allow for more widespread herd-behaviour (they often look solitary, but they move in widespread packs) and (additionally) for male-on-male fighting, for which they bang their necks together.

This might be bollocks, but it is (largely) courtesy of BBC's QI.