Europe`s hour of the selfish?

[Something completely different]

Although the number of european members on this forum is numberd, I will bring up a subject wich has risen to public attention in Europe during the past few years especialy during the financial scrisis. Americans may see this as a short look at current geopolitical problems in Europe.
If you are the Nigel Farage kind of brit, who consideres the rest of Europe to be the genital herpes of Britain, and who sods arround about "how great the empire was" I advice you to finaly accept Indias independence and that you have the charisma of a dusty old rag!

Independence movements (nice word), seperatism (ugly word)

During the recesion Europe is currently in, more and more nations or cultural enteties within nations have voiced their urge to become independent nations. These include: Scotland, Flanders, Catalonia, the Basque land and south Tyrol

Examples of current independence\seperatist movements in Europe:


Spain, short history of seperate cultures:

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If one looks at the national emblem on the national flag of spain, one can see 5 different emblems:

These represent the 4 kingdoms (Portugal excluded) who during the historic era called "Requoncista" (718 -1492) reconquered the iberian peninsular.
From left to right - from above downwards:
Kingdom of Castil, Kingdom of Leon, Kingdom of Arragon and the Kingdom of Navarra. The round emblem in the middle represents the royal french "Bourbon" family, of whom a member was crowned King of Spain after the spanish war of succesion (1701 - 1714). (The current spanish royal family is of french decent).
These Kingdoms all had their sepperate cultural identety before being united under one spanish crown in 1506.

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Current situation in Spain on Catalonian independence:

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Because of it`s histories as individual cultures there have been independence\seperatist movement in these regions for a long time. Under the rule of Francisco Franco, these movements, especialy the Basques were brutaly supressed.
Catalonia is economicaly one of the most succesfull regions of Spain. It produces one fifth of the spanish GDP, but the spanish central goverment in Madrid has neglected to invest into the Catalonian inferstructure for 30 years. The head of the catalonian independence\seperatist movement is Artur Mas, who is also the head of catalonias regional goverment, as such he has dissolved the catalonian goverment and called for reelections, he hopes to reach a absolute mayority in the catalonian parlament, wich he would then use to declare independence.
On the 11. September one million catalonians came out to protest for independence in the catalonias capital Barcelona. So independence on the base of a public vote isn`t that unlikely.

Catalonia on the map of Spain:

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The situation in the Basque land:

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The Basques are probably the most famous people on the iberian paninsular striving for independence. Their armed wing the ETA has fought a military campain against francos regime shortly after ww2, it was also them who succesfully killed Francos successor Luis Carrero Blanco, and thereby contributed enourmously to the fall of fashist Spain.
In post fashist Spain, the Eta fell apart into a political party and a continuing military arm, although autonomy was granted for the Basques in the new spanish constitution. Violence continued until a final seacefire was anounced by the ETA in 2006, never the less, a part of the basque population has continued to demand independence and since the economic crisis (since the Basque region is economicaly better of than the rest of Spain) support for independence has grown.

Basque land on the map of Spain:

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Short history of Belgium:

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Belgium is a region of Europe over wich a lot of wars were fought over. Previously it was part of the Holy roman empire and was later "given" to the catholich spanish crown. During the reformation, the spanish crown brutaly supressed any attempt to decent from the catholic church. So in 1568 dhe dutch then formed The united 7 republics of the Netherlands, Pope Paul the third (in his holy gracefull wisdom) sentenced all dutch to death for heresy, and the spanish crown was given the task to carry out the Popes sentence. Thus started the 80 years war, or dutch war of independence. After the Spanish were kicked out of northern Europe, the dutch and the french would continue to fight wars over who had control over that piece of land, in wich both peoples lived. In 1830, whilest under dutch rule, the Walloons triggered a revolution and Belgium was formed.

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Flanders:

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Flanders is the northern part of Belgium, Belgium generaly is a strange country. It consists of 3 peoples living in one country: The dutch speaking Flemings in the north, the french speaking Walloons in the south and some Germans in the east.
It`s goverment is a utter mess. each one of these peoples has it`s own goverment and is selfgoverning, but still there is a central goverment in Brussles. So generaly forming a goverment has always been a painfull-longterm thing in Belgium. Last year Bart de Wever, the head of the flamish independence movement boycotted the forming of a goverment for more than a year. Currently he has good chances of becoming the mayor of belgiums most importent economic metropolis Antwerpen. This possition would strengthen his possition on forming a independent nation.
As like in Spain, Flanders is currently the economicaly better province and started it`s movement by refusing to pay for the poorer south.
picture of Flanders on the map of Belgium:

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Scotland:
I think everyone knows scotish history.

Current state:

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I think the scotish movement for independence is the one wich got most attention in the world wide media. It`s head is Alex Salmond. The Scots are planning to hold a referendum on scotish independence in 2014.
From what I could get from my mediaoutlets, the scotish independence movement wants independence from Westminster but not from the crown.
What i find strange is how members of this organisation first proposed economic standerds as in Ireland - until the irish economy collapsed.
Now their model on how they would run a independent Scotland is Scandinavia. The oil reserves located in northern Scotland are also a factor wich playes a role in a potential drive for independence.

If you can find or dont know were Scotland is on the map, nothing can help you. your just stupid.

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I`m looking forward on reading frankiej`s opinion on this.

South Tyrol:

short history:

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South Tyrol, use to be part of Austria until 1918. After the first world war it was given to Italy for it`s engagement in the war, although the population was by majority of german culture.
It stayed in italy and up to 1974 several bombings took place in wich the italian influence in that province was tried to be undermined. in 1974 the province got autonomy.

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Current situation:

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It amazes me how the seventh largest economy could be trashed by one man, Berlosconi. As with the other seperatist movements, south tyrol has a special economic status through it`s constitutionaly garanteed autonomy. It`s economy hasn`t suffered as much as the rest of Italy under the crisis and recession. But now that it has to pay in order to pay for italys entire debt, voices for independence have only recently became louder.

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One thing that strikes me about these movements is that they all errupted in economicaly hard times in ereas not as bad off. The term "selfishness" might be very fitting, if one leaves a nations to save his own skin.
Other than that, every single one of these movements aspire membership in the EU. wich sounds delusional since, to become EU member all EU nations have to aprove of it`s membership and a treity must be written between EU and the souvereign state, wich in most cases is a process that can take years.
One cannot help but think that cultural differences between the peoples are mainly used as a excuse, and that the real big factor behind the recent rise in popularity of these movements is the economic situation.
The only exception for me are the basques who have been fighting for independence on a big scale for more than 50 years.

[Darth]

And the Aussies are just politely waiting for the current queen to cark it =P.

[jonb]

It's the economy stupid. Probably, but not always, Welsh nationalists, Croatia, etc.

[Hughsie]

Alex Salmond is an idiot. His face looks like it's been deep fat fried and he sounds worse than he looks.

His approach to the referendum on independence is a joke. Why does he want to include 16 year olds even though they aren't old enough to vote? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that they're far less likely to actually look at the pros and cons and far more likely to just be nationalistic about it, could it?

Real poetic justice would be for Salmond to get his independence and then for England to simply invade, that would make me laugh.

[Justtristo]

And the Aussies are just politely waiting for the current queen to cark it =P.

Well if Prince Charles dies before the current Queen (which could happen) or reigns for a short period of time and then dies. Prince William becomes King William V, Australia could remain a constitutional monarchy for a very long time.

Anyway given all these regions are in the European Union, gaining independence from the countries they are currently in is like getting their cake and eating it too.